Pakistan Analysis from the Axis of Antisemitism

December 29, 2007 at 12:20 pm (POLITICS)

http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2007/12/pakistan-analysis-from-the-axis-of-antisemitism/

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29 Comments

  1. greg said,

    Eric, there are nut-jobs on both sides of the spectrum. There are plenty of right-wingers who think Clinton and Reno were responsible for Oklahoma City or that Bush blew up the WTC on 9/11 or whatever. They are most certainly NOT the people that give the candidates — Democrat or Republican — their marching orders, and using them to make mainstream arguments damages the credibility of those who make those arguments.

    I don’t know who killed Bhutto and regardless of the individual who actually pulled the trigger or set off the bomb, there are complexities in these kinds of things that don’t make it easy for anyone to pinpoint one singular cause.

    BTW, I don’t personally know anyone at the Daily Kos or Huffington, but I do know one managing director at MoveOn quite well, and that person is Jewish and takes her faith very seriously. She’s also rather hot ….

  2. micky2 said,

    Yea, there nut jobs on both sides.
    How anyone can not see that the left has a monopoly on nuttiness is just another example of nuttiness.
    Greeniacs, Code pink, Peta, almost all 911 conspiracy theories are launced by the left.
    Just one look at San Fransisco should remove any question as to where most of the nut jobs are at and who they are voting for.
    In my life I’ve noticed that bizarre behavior, abstract thinking , surrealism and art along with vividly wild intepretations are suppoted and nudged along in the liberal democdatic world. And hey ! I’m all for art and surrealism and sci fi and all the imagintive concepts we have in our society.
    But it should be kept away from politics.
    Sorry Greg , but the majority of nuts jobs , hands down, are on your side of the fence.

  3. greg said,

    I grew up in Orange County and now live in the SF Bay Area. Believe me, I know a thing or two about nut-jobs on both sides. Whether there’s more on one side than the other depends on which side of the fence one’s own self sits, I suspect, but ultimately it’s irrelevant because we have plenty on both sides to go around!

    And I don’t think that’s necessarily unhealthy, either.

  4. laree said,

    Here is an example, some of these Huffington Post commenters, choose to shoot the messenger because the reporting, won’t fit their political idealogy. Comments: Wolf Blitzer has a bias for the Bush Administration. That’s right CNN is biased toward the Republicans. Why because this doesn’t fit into these people’s political idealogy. Every event is filtered through far left idealogy, they can’t be objective. It has to be Bush’s fault, and if their favorite cablenews outlet won’t parrott that message back to them, then that Media outlet has betrayed them.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/27/blitzer-exclusive-bhutto_n_78475.html

  5. Jersey McJones said,

    I’m with Greg. I also don’t hang around Kos and DU and such, though I think I have a Huffington account, but I don’t know if I’ve ever used it. Anyway, Americans don’t seem to have a good grasp on what’s going on in Pakistan – not that I do, but it just seems to be a lot of misunderstanding out there. What happened the other day will probably NEVER be known. That is a standard tradmark of South Asian assassinations. Therefore, crazy theories and accusations are going to be flying around all over the place. Who did it? Why? Was it done as a proxy to affect something else? Al Qaeda is the culprit in America. Musharaff and the radical tribes in Pakistan. Etc, etc. Whoever and whatever are politically conveniant to whom decides who gets the blame.

    I get two lessons from this event:

    1) This insane revolutionary democracy movement being proagated by the neocons has got to stop. You can’t force democracy down the throats of the South Asians and Middle Easterners and you probably wouldn’t like the results if you did.

    2) Pakistan is a complicated disaster and has been for 60 years. We’ve got to help the Pakistani military clean this mess without somehow getting involved in the mess ourselves.

    I don’t know what the statespeople of our day are going to do, but I hope they are very careful and take consideration of the interests of Pakistan ahead of narrow, failed ideologies.

    JMJ

  6. micky2 said,

    Sorry Greg,
    All the nut jobs that topped the mainstream medias list his year have been libs or dems. Charlie Sheen, Rosie, almost half of hollywood is on some kind of mission to see who can say the stupidest things
    And since the mainstream media itself is a lib indoctrination vehicle , that says alot.
    Even the lib media cant hide a good lib nut job or avoid showing the plane in your face existance of massive nuts on the left.

    Jersey,
    You want the US to help with a military solution in Pakistan ? And yet you dont think democracy should be the prevalent policy ?
    And really, be serious, you expect or wish that we help and not get envolved ?
    You’re dreaming. Half these people crap themselves when they find out we have anything to do with anything. Or decide not to do anything about anything.

    Would a narrow failed ideoligy be to actually look out for our interests ?
    God forbid !

  7. Jersey McJones said,

    Micky, if all the muslim world were to be democratized today, do you think they would vote for the kind of governments you’d be happy with? Really???

    JMJ

  8. laree said,

    I am glad that India a functioning democracy is on Pakistan’s border, they keep the nukes in Pakistan in check.

    If Bhutto was plan A, I would like to know what our plan B is ? If Musharraf died tomorrow of natural causes who would take over the leadership of Pakistan? Human beings are mortal and none of us are indespensible. How many CIA operatives do we have in the region? What is our Govt., contingency plan if Musharraf for any reason looses power? Where is the rest of the World community? What happens in Pakistan doesn’t just affect American National Security.

  9. micky2 said,

    First of all Jersey, you didn’t seem to want to answer any of my questions.
    Instead you reply with a question.
    Probably because like most liberals you are always putting out the “what if” instead of the “how”

    If we were to assist the Pakistani military in any way more than we do now it would create ALOT of friction from anti American elements not only in Pakistan but everywhere in the middle east and in the world right up to Ron Paul’s whiney little butt.
    Pakistan has one of the better military’s in the region. What they lack is leadership, conviction and direction.
    If a country’s form of government is conducive and supportive to terroristic elements, then in Americas best interest it is imperative to install a form of government that is capable of separating church from state. Every stinking country in the middle east has governments that are dictated to by religious leaders. Like Eric said, non of these countries are doing very well. And every country in the middle east has huge terrorist ties and breeding grounds because of religious fanatics who preach hatred to America through their governments.
    Afghanistan was ruled by the Taliban, they’re pretty much gone and the Afghanis are better off under a diplomatic rule now with Karzai. Pakistan has inherited Afghanistan’s problems now. But the last time I checked Pakistan was already one of the more diplomatic countries in the middle east. It has however over time switched back and forth between being a federal republic, and has had a long history of alternating periods of electoral democracy and authoritarian military government.
    I see no reason to offer Pakistan anything more than we already have.
    Except for a swift kick right up Musharrafs ass.
    So quite frankly , it seems that you should be the last guy fighting the war on terror because you are more worried about peoples feelings and what they like to vote for, than you are worried about Americans safety.
    And FYI, as much as you keep saying Iraq is a complete and utter failure (which I’ve proven you wrong on many times) the Iraqis are as a majority grateful for the democratic government we have installed there. They just didn’t know what it tasted like , nor had they ever seen anything like it before.
    First you have to convince someone to taste something before you can expect them to vote on it Jersey.
    If you had a choice between any government in the middle east and our government, which would you choose ?
    These folks don’t even know that there is such a thing as a choice.
    So, give me and everyone else a break, alright ?

  10. Jersey McJones said,

    “Probably because like most liberals you are always putting out the “what if” instead of the “how””

    LOL! If the Bush “administration” had thought about “what if” then we wouldn’t be in the fix we’re in today!

    We have no choice now but to prop up the Pakistani military. It’s the least-worst thing we can do. Such is life. Only the Pakistani military seems to grasp the first priority of keeping a secular state AND can do it. There are plenty of other secular forces in Pakistan, but they do not seem to have it in them to tame the tribes and sectarians. This is common knowledge, at least in the press, from Islamabad, to New Dehli, to Washington DC. It sucks, but it seems to be the way it is. Even your neocons seem to agree with this. Where you guys seem to differ is in that you seem to believe that ideolized American-esque, laizzez faire, representative democracy has somehow been universally perfected and should be foisted upon the rest of the earth with all undue immediacy! I say that’s nuts. Insane. I would think most “Conservatives” just a generation ago would have told you the same thing – and many of them have and are.

    JMJ

  11. greg said,

    Thank God there are liberals who ask the “what if” questions. As any business person who has ever used an Excel spreadsheet can tell you, “what if” questions are pretty damn important.

    I think Jordan, a monarchy, would be an example of a Middle Eastern country that has managed to largely separate church and state. However, you can separate church and state but you can never separate religion from politics. The best example of that is the United States and I think that’s a good thing.

    Has anyone seen Charlie Wilson’s War? Yes, it is a fictionalized story but it is based on a true story and it ends with a scene and a quote from Charlie Wilson that seems to sum up American foreign policy in the Middle East. I won’t spoil the ending, but just encourage everyone to see it (if for no other reason that it is an entertaining movie).

  12. Jersey McJones said,

    I have to see that movie.

    And Greg, you point up something valuable in your reference to Jordan – Aristocracies can manage to be a bulwark against theocracy in sectarian, clanistic and tribal cultures. I think the military acts as sort of an aristocracy today in Pakistan today – they are neither secular nor sectarian – they are apart form all that. Giving democracy to people who would gladly vote it away is like throwing chum to sharks before you take a swim. Hamas anyone???

    The academy and the professional classes in Pakistan should get in with the military, and then, finally, maybe we could have durable, dependable democracy in Pakistan. I guess over there it would just work out better that way. As the Israelis often remind us – you have to have security before you can have peace.

    JMJ

  13. micky2 said,

    Once again the armchair quarterbacks open there mouths as Jersey did;
    “LOL! If the Bush “administration” had thought about “what if” then we wouldn’t be in the fix we’re in today!”
    What if you hadn’t turned left instead of right ?
    And if Clinton had asked that question in the 90’s maybe 3000 people would still be alive ?
    It would be nice if you even bothered to try and answer my questions.

    And then there’s this brilliant statement;
    “We have no choice now but to prop up the Pakistani military. It’s the least-worst thing we can do. Such is life.”

    As a matter of fact we “do ” have a choice. The choice to “prop” up the Pakistani military could have serious implications right now. The Bhutto opposition would see us as an aggressive action against them if a civil war breaks out and we go in to assist the military. The Taliban and Al Queda would more than likely attack the innocent as they always do if we made a precense in Pakistan.
    The only thing holding that country together right now is the Pakistani military, and they’re doing just fine. If its agreed that elections should be moved up to March (which is what they’re talking of doing) then the country should be at relative calm until then.
    The biggest problem they have is the undisclosed nature of Bhuttos death. If she were exhumed and the cause was cleared up and made public the opposition wouldn’t be so pissed off right now.
    You guys on the left cant seem to make up your mind. Like I said. On one hand we should mind our business entirely in the middle east. But know you want our military to go in and assist the Pakistani military ?
    Pakistan’s military has the capability to do what needs to be done.
    Musharraf needs to figure out who he’s going to side with already.
    Peace treaty with the North ? Screw that !
    Even his own Prime Minister Muhammad Mian Soomro wont acknowledge the radicals and Taliban in the north. That’s TROUBLE !
    Just last night I heard him denying they even exist in his country.
    This my lefty friends is what the diplomatic process with Pakistan got us after 911.
    We’re out 10 billion plus dollars and cant even nail Bin Laden if we knew he was in there… B.S!
    As far as Jerseys opinion on the type of government goes, even a child can tell you what they don’t want. Would you rather live under any brand of rule active in the middle east right now, or something representative of an American republic ?

    As far as Greg’s reply goes;
    “Thank God there are liberals who ask the “what if” questions. As any business person who has ever used an Excel spreadsheet can tell you, “what if” questions are pretty damn important.’
    Yes , any fool would always ask what if.
    Read carefully, I said always. That may be an exaggeration, but its close.
    Any fool can sit around and say “what if?” at everything. But eventually someone has to come up with a plan and some positive input, or nothing would ever get done , EVER !
    Zarqauwi was a “Jordanian freedom fighter” as he liked to be called. And the lib media was only too happy to oblige him.
    Yup, even Jordan needs a little work as far as taming its own radical elements. As goes for every other middle eastern country. They are all spawning these idiots.

    JMJ said;
    “The academy and the professional classes in Pakistan should get in with the military, and then, finally, maybe we could have durable, dependable democracy in Pakistan.”

    ROTFLMAO.
    Do you actually think the radical elements are going to let it happen that easily ?
    If we make a move by offering assitance to Pakistans military, every radical element across the middle east ontop of whats there already will “come a huntin”
    You have a slew of terrorists up north just waiting for excuse to run a jihad on Pakistan and grab those 60 nukes.
    Its not just all about roasting marshmallows Jeresey.

  14. Jersey McJones said,

    “And if Clinton had asked that question in the 90’s maybe 3000 people would still be alive ?”

    Personally, Micky, I am quite convinced that Al Qaeda attacked us on 9/11 BECAUSE Bush and the GOP became the one party ruling majority. Bn Laden has said so himself. That’s why 9/11 2001 and not 9/11 1996, or 1998. Yes, there were other attacks, but the big shabang had to have been timed the way it was for a reason, and the attackers have pretty well spelled out the reason – they had to pick a time when America could be lured into war because it was as reactionary, backwards, and pseudo-patriotic as possible. The election of Bush, with a majority GOP Hill, was the perfect time in their minds. They were proven absolutely right.

    Other than this point, Micky, you are the perfect example of the American who seems to know pretty much nothing about Pakistan.

    JMJ

  15. micky2 said,

    JMJ said;
    “Personally, Micky, I am quite convinced that Al Qaeda attacked us on 9/11 BECAUSE Bush and the GOP became the one party ruling majority.”

    Thats just stupid. It took 5 years to plan the attack.
    And as you say there were other attacks previous to the Bush administration.
    Your Bush deraingement syndrome has clearly gotten in the way of rational thought.

    And then you back up my claim to the stupidity by saying this;
    “hey had to pick a time when America could be lured into war”
    I dont think in 1996 anyone , even Bush, knew who the candidates were going to be.
    That has to be one of the most effing ridiculous things I’ve ever heard, really.
    I’m taken back, that beats the teen beauty queen for stupidity by a mile.

    Nobody, not even Bin Laden knew who would win the election 5 years ahead of time.
    And since it took 5 years to execute, you do the math.

    But libs and BinLaden , they always say stupid things after the fact. More B.S. conspiracy theories like Bin Laden and Jersey being able to see the future.
    Just insane. Ridiclous. Are you listening to yourself ? Have you started your celebration a little early ?
    That beats out anything Rosie or Charley Sheen has ever said.

    Would you care to elaborate on my lack of knowledge concerning Pakistan ?
    Instead of childshly just “saying it ” and expecting it to be fact ?

    I have made my points , which are perfectly in tune with general knowledge and concensous pertaining to Pakistan.
    Did you know that 46% of the population in Pakistan speaks favorably of Bin Laden ?
    And yet your kumbaya mentallity thinks we can just offer military assistance without major fallout ? Where you aware that there own Prime Minister Muhammad Mian Soomro is so scared of the norther population that he wont even acknowledge the existance of Al Queda training camps and the Taliban in the north ?
    Did you also know that slowley over the years the Pakistani military has been infiltrated by Al Queda and radical Islamists ?
    Pakistan is a very young country, it doesnt take much too get caught up on their affairs.
    I was watching the news on the continuous scuffles between India and Pakistan when you were still soiling your diapers.
    So please, spare me the condescending remarks from the great history teacher who thinks that Bin Laden new 5 years ahead of time who would win in 2000.

    Really Jersey, sometimes you need to step back and think about what you say.
    And while you’re at it, try answering just one of my questions. God knows, I answer plenty of yours.

  16. laree said,

    Except they-Alqaeda, had declared war on us prior to 9-11 and there were many attacks on the USA including the first World Trade Center Bombing in 1993 when Clinton was President. Selective memory?

    India is a democracy that shares a border with Pakistan, they don’t count? India is also a nuclear power. How would India react to Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal, becoming vunerable to terrorist? They are fighting some of the same terrorist in Kashmir. What happens in Pakistan is not only the USA concern, we are not in this by ourselves. Musharraf is not indespensible, he is mortal, he could die tomorrow. I would be naive, to believe that our Govt doesn’t have a Plan B, Bhutto being plan A.

  17. micky2 said,

    Perfect Laree !
    Thank you so much for reminding me and especially Mr McJones that the first Trade Tower bombing was actually supposed to be the “big shabang” as Mr. McJones so aptly describes it. It was actually intended to topple one tower into another if as far as most research indicates.
    I would like to see how Mr McJones answers up to that one.

  18. laree said,

    mickey2

    It is extreme BDS They call him stupid but then they pin the crimes of the century on him so which is it? Is he a brilliant evil manical leader or is he a dumb incompetent hick? I suppose it depends on which way the political wind is blowing.

  19. micky2 said,

    Laree; I’ve made the exact same point many times.
    911 was an inside job along with the New Orleans levees and not one witness anywhere to be found. The intelligence leading up to the war was a complete orchestration involving 21 other countries in order to steal oil.
    But man is he stupid !

    Happy New year dude.

  20. Jersey McJones said,

    9/11 was the most audacious attack on America since the burning of Washington DC by the British almost 200 years prior. There is no attack that compares in that meantime. 9/11 was timed to start a war and it worked. Our country was so intensely stupid at that time, that the attackers knew we could be egged into war, thus making ourselves a central unifying enemy for the Muslim Street. And it worked. And not only did that work, but we have suffered more losses since 9/11 than on it, have squandered hundreds of billions of dollars on failed colonial wars, have sunk into unteneble debt, have disgraced ourselves internationally, have divided ourselves in polarized camps, have neglected our own infrastructure and development, have eroded our rights, and on and on. For Al Qaeda and their sympathizers, 9/11 was a complete and utter success. They got everything they wanted and much, much more. And yet there are still people out there dopey enough to think we were attacked arbitrarily and have reacted accordingly.

    Pathetic.

    JMJ

  21. Jersey McJones said,

    Oh, sorry. I can’t believe I forgot Pearl Harbor!!!

    JMJ

  22. Ree said,

    Except the terrorist also count American Interest outside of our mainland, and they were attacking our embassys, and the USS Cole long before 9-11
    Osama Bin Laden had stated long before 9-11 that he was at war with the US. 9-11 planning went back at least 4 years before the event, who was President during the planning phase? Alqaeda does not care what any of our political persuasions might happen to be, we are all “infidels”

    The word out of Iraq from the last Alqaeda leader was that the USA would convert to Islam or pay a tribute. What are we paying for a barrel of oil right now? Seems to me the tribute has already been figured into the price of oil. They say the cost of oil comes from futures trading. Someone is lining the pockets of our enemies by artificially keeping the price of oil high. Supposedly Bush is going to sign a bill to take care of this phenom, and oil is going to go back down where it would normally be somewhere in the $60 range. Will See.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_U.S._embassy_bombings

  23. micky2 said,

    You seem to forget a lot Jersey. As laree mentioned, its selective memory.
    And you are dodging the fact that you said something really stupid and has been wrong simply by looking at honest facts.
    Not premonitions, telepathy or asinine opinions.

    JMJ said;
    ” 9/11 was timed to start a war and it worked.”
    Where do you get this info from ?
    The facts dictate otherwise, and these are the facts.
    Radical Islam has been calling us out for decades Jersey !
    Just take a look at all these previous attacks. When that didn’t work they came here. And finally we had a president with balls enough to go after these guys !
    Wise up ! Grow up ! get over your hatred for Bush and look at historical fact in its real chronological order and context for once . Accept the fact that Clinton and Carter were probably the two biggest catalysts that lead to what we are going through now.
    ==================================================================
    http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1759
    Years before September 11, 2001, there were warnings that militant Islam was a violent threat to American security. In 1998, Daniel Pipes wrote in the European edition of the Wall Street Journal that militant Muslims were at war with America, not because of what America did, but because Islamists perceive themselves as being in a long-term conflict with the values of the West.
    ==================================================================
    America’s war on terrorism did not begin in September 2001. It began in November 1979.

    That was shortly after Ayatollah Khomeini had seized power in Iran, riding the slogan “Death to America” – and sure enough, the attacks on Americans soon began. In November 1979, a militant Islamic mob took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran, the Iranian capital, and held 52 Americans hostage for the next 444 days.

    The rescue team sent to free those hostages in April 1980 suffered eight fatalities, making them the first of militant Islam’s many American casualties. Others included:

    April 1983: 17 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut.

    October 1983: 241 dead at the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut.

    December 1983: five dead at the U.S. embassy in Kuwait.

    January 1984: the president of the American University of Beirut killed.

    April 1984: 18 dead near a U.S. airbase in Spain.

    September 1984: 16 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut (again).

    December 1984: Two dead on a plane hijacked to Tehran.

    June 1985: One dead on a plane hijacked to Beirut.

    After a let-up, the attacks then restarted: Five and 19 dead in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and 1996, 224 dead at the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998 and 17 dead on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000.

    Simultaneously, the murderous assault of militant Islam also took place on U.S. soil:

    July 1980: an Iranian dissident killed in the Washington, D.C. area.

    August 1983: a leader of the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam killed in Canton, Mich.

    August 1984: three Indians killed in a suburb of Tacoma, Wash.

    September 1986: a doctor killed in Augusta, Ga.

    January 1990: an Egyptian freethinker killed in Tucson, Ariz.

    November 1990: a Jewish leader killed in New York.

    February 1991: an Egyptian Islamist killed in New York.

    January 1993: two CIA staff killed outside agency headquarters in Langley, Va.

    February 1993: Six people killed at the World Trade Center.

    March 1994: an Orthodox Jewish boy killed on the Brooklyn Bridge.

    February 1997: a Danish tourist killed on the Empire State building.

    October 1999: 217 passengers killed on an EgyptAir flight near New York City.

    In all, 800 persons lost their lives in the course of attacks by militant Islam on Americans before September 2001 – more than killed by any other enemy since the Vietnam War. (Further, this listing does not include the dozens more Americans in Israel killed by militant Islamic terrorists.)

    And yet, these murders hardly registered. Only with the events of a year ago did Americans finally realize that “Death to America” truly is the battle cry of this era’s most dangerous foe, militant Islam.

    In retrospect, the mistake began when Iranians assaulted the U.S. embassy in Tehran and met with no resistance.
    ==================================================================So as you can see Jersey historical facts dictate that every attack so far has been an attempt to draw us into to war.
    No s**t Sherlock ! Of course they were picking a fight ! Do you want a genius of the year award ?
    But the problem is that like some psychopath , you blame it all on Bush !
    That insane accusation you made earlier negates anything you may say from now on as reliable.
    =============================================================================
    JMJ said;
    “have squandered hundreds of billions of dollars on failed colonial wars”

    I have shut you down and proven you wrong on this issue so many times.
    But lets put it simply this time.

    THE WAR IS NOT OVER, BUT YOU SAY IT IS LOST ?
    And I just know you don’t want to talk about Iraq anymore, neither does the media.
    Ya know why ? Good news doesn’t sell ! You here more about Afghanistan and Pakistan now more than anything, period !
    ==============================================================================
    JMJ said;
    “have divided ourselves in polarized camps, ”

    Only because of people like you saying stupid things like the quote below.
    You bitch about the country being polarized and then you say this;
    JMJ said;
    “Personally, Micky, I am quite convinced that Al Qaeda attacked us on 9/11 BECAUSE Bush and the GOP became the one party ruling majority.”

    What do you expect from people when you run off idiotic remarks like that ?
    ==============================================================================
    JMJ said;
    ” They got everything they wanted and much, much more. And yet there are still people out there dopey enough to think we were attacked arbitrarily and have reacted accordingly.”

    Good God man. Its nice to see someone so supportive and positive when it comes to his country.
    If we are all such a bunch of miserable idiots why don’t you just pack your crap and leave ? You consistently say how screwed up and full of idiots our country is.
    And how we can never do anything right in your eyes.
    You may think the enemy has gotten what he wanted. But that is absolutely wrong.
    Only because any common person knows that they want us all dead. They said so.
    And we have not been attacked on American soil since 911 . As opposed to other administrations that gave extra rope and appeasement to the enemy that allowed 911 to happen.
    You’re really at the loosing end of the stick. Its obvious when you keep obfuscating to different subjects and not answering my questions.

  24. Jersey McJones said,

    Micky, just read what Al Qaeda and OBL have said:

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/index.html

    “We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah…”

    “We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat…”

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html

    “The call to wage war against America was made because America has spear-headed the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two Holy Mosques over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics, and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical regime that is in control. These are the reasons behind the singling out of America as a target.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/bin.laden.transcript/

    “… We found no difficulties in dealing with the Bush administration, because of the similarities of that administration and the regimes in our countries, half of which are run by the military and half of which are run by monarchs. And our experience is vast with them.

    And those two kinds are full of arrogance and taking money illegally.

    The resemblance started when [former President George H.W.] Bush, the father, visited the area, when some of our own were impressed by America and were hoping that the visits would affect and influence our countries.

    Then, what happened was that he was impressed by the monarchies and the military regimes, and he was jealous of them staying in power for tens of years, embezzling the public money without any accountability. And he moved the tyranny and suppression of freedom to his own country, and they called it the Patriot Act, under the disguise of fighting terrorism. And Bush, the father, found it good to install his children as governors and leaders.

    We agreed with the leader of the group, Mohammed Atta, to perform all attacks within 20 minutes before [President George W.] Bush and his administration were aware of what was going on. And we never knew that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would leave 50,000 of his people in the two towers to face those events by themselves when they were in the most urgent need of their leader. …”

    Does that spell it out pretty plainly to you?

    JMJ

  25. micky2 said,

    First of all , you contradict yourself when quoting OBL. Because he clearly says “continuing”. Which only makes my point that this has been going on “WAY” longer than Bush has been in office.
    ==================================================================
    As far as this quote goes;
    “The call to wage war against America was made because America has spear-headed the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two Holy Mosques over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics, and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical regime that is in control. These are the reasons behind the singling out of America as a target.”

    It only proves my point again. For if you look at my links a references above they clearly make it truthfully clear that the call to war against America was made LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before your measly little quotes here were made.
    ==================================================================
    And then you expect me to fall for this horrific attempt at insulting my intelligence by using this quote out of context and being very, very, very disingenuous to the point of almost lying and making things up.
    Lets put the below quote in its proper context, shall we ?

    “We agreed with the leader of the group, Mohammed Atta, to perform all attacks within 20 minutes before [President George W.] Bush and his administration were aware of what was going on. And we never knew that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would leave 50,000 of his people in the two towers to face those events by themselves when they were in the most urgent need of their leader. …”

    In the same column from the link you supplied OBL also says this;
    “God only knows, that we never had the intentions to destroy the towers.”
    Now, any clear thinking person knows he’s full of sh** since it took five years to execute the plan. And they tried once before in 93 claiming in 93 that the intent was to bring down the towers.

    And then there is this quote from the same column which clearly shows that his ill intent towards America was not spawned of the Bush administration.
    OBL;
    “And these special events that directly and personally affected me go back to 1982 and what happened when America gave permission for Israel to invade Lebanon”

    He clearly says that he was effected as far back as 1982. I seriously doubt that OBL had Bush Jr. in his cross hairs or could predict from 1982 that he would be our president in 2000.

    And still… It spells out only the fact that it still took five years to plan this attack and the only reason they name him in the directions to Attah is it so happened that Bush was president .
    You forgot to include OBLs last statement in the article you quote from that you selectively edited to work in your favor.
    It goes like this.
    OBL said;
    “Your security is not in the hands of [Democratic presidential nominee John] Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands. Any nation that does not attack us will not be attacked.”

    So as you conveniently forgot to include in your post. OBL plainly says himself that it doesn’t matter WHO is in charge.
    And as far as attacks go, The Bush administration was not the first to attack Al Quean.

    Just face it Jersey. You said something dumb and the more you dig the dumber it gets.

  26. laree said,

    I think the most telling statement that Osama ever made was “America is finally coming out of her caves”

    That’s right, they were attacking us until we would finally engage them. Well guess what we are pulled up to their front porches now. America is not the USSR, not yet anyway. The reason they could beat the USSR in Afghanistan, was because we were assisting them. You know with like technology Satelite ect.. The cave dewellers, think they did it all by themselves. They like to beat their chest, they like to be the big bully on their block. They are so invunerable, they have to murder women “Bhutto”

    Joseph Biden of Delaware, stated after 9-11. Please don’t treat these thugs, like they are 10 feet tall, we treated the USSR like they were 10 feet tall, and when the wall came down, we found out, they were more like 7 feet tall. Senator Joseph Biden, chairman of the Foreign Relations Commitee. “We can take them” The only Democrat, I would consider voting for.

  27. laree said,

    I really enjoyed this article and the comments are very good to if you scroll down through the comments there is mention of a gathering of eagles.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/12/31/british-paper-names-general-petraeus-person-year

  28. Jersey McJones said,

    Great Biden quote, Laree.

    As for the “surge” and Petreus, time’s running out, and once that happens then we’ll see what the future may hold. The military can’t stretch this forever, and the contractors are bleeding us dry. We will eventually have to either pear down or initiate the draft. It’s one or the other, period. This la-la land “eagle” approach sounds all well and fine but has only rhetorical value. The fact is that we can’t “surge” forvever without the draft. At the point, we’ll be forced to withdraw. The only thing we can hope for – ironically – is that the mass ethnic cleansing and the internal and extrernal displacement of 4 1/2 million Iraqis has already created the necessary sectarian and ethnic partitioning for some measure of peace. The problem there, of course, however, is that condition will not bode well for a united federal Iraqi state.

    JMJ

  29. micky2 said,

    JMJ said this;
    “This la-la land “eagle” approach sounds all well and fine but has only rhetorical value.

    Rhetorical value? The word “surge ” does not imply anything permanent. And the surge was never intended to be a consistent wave of troops as you insinuate by saying “forever”. So don’t try to make it sound as if that was the intent or needs to be.
    No rhetoric here my friend , just the facts.
    The surge has done what it was intended to do on top of more than half of the displaced people you speak of which have already moved back to Iraq, 2 1/2 million to be exact.
    And that measure of peace that you my optimistic friend are so sure will never happen is happening. Do you know how you can tell ?
    THERES NO MORE NEWS ABOUT IRAQ ON TV !
    We don’t see the daily bombings anymore and all networks are left with nothing but sappy little success stories about villages and towns coming back to life.

    CBS news put up a BILL CRYSTAL OP ED ?
    Here’s part of it.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/19/opinion/main2583232.shtml?source=RSSattr=Opinion_2583232
    In order to preserve the cosmic harmony, it seems the gods insist that good news in one place be offset by misfortune elsewhere.
    The continued, increasing presence of U.S. forces appears to be having an important psychological, as well as practical, effect on the enemy and the people of Iraq. In Ramadi, in the belt south of Baghdad stretching from Yusifiyah to Salman Pak, and northeast in Diyala Province, . . . U.S. and Iraqi forces have deprived al Qaeda of the initiative.
    This sense of momentum is confirmed by many other reports in the media, and from Americans and Iraqis on the ground.
    ==================================================================And heres one from NBC.

    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2007/12/24/nbcs-general-mccaffrey-sees-progress-iraq

    NBC’s General McCaffrey Sees Progress in Iraq
    By Brad Wilmouth | December 24, 2007 – 10:23 ET
    Sunday’s “NBC Nightly News” featured retired General Barry McCaffrey, NBC News military analyst and “one-time war critic,” as he voiced his “surprising new assessment” that conditions in Iraq have improved “dramatically” since the surge. McCaffrey, former Drug Czar of the Clinton administration, remarked: “A year ago, I thought the thing was going over the edge of a cliff. That has changed dramatically in a very short period of time.”
    ==================================================================
    And heres a video from ABC that is dated as far back as April 07.
    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2007/12/24/nbcs-general-mccaffrey-sees-progress-iraq.
    ==================================================================
    And of course, even one of Jerseys favorites CNN, cant hide it anymore either.

    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2007/11/30/cnn-covers-big-3-networks-ignore-murtha-surge-working-story

    CNN Covers, ‘Big 3′ Networks Ignore Murtha ‘Surge is Working’ Story
    By Matthew Balan | November 30, 2007 – 12:56 ET
    The “Big Three” networks’ morning shows all ignored Representative John Murtha’s “the surge [in Iraq] is working” comments during a recent video conference. On the other hand, CNN’s “American Morning,” during its 6 am Eastern hour “Political Ticker” segment, covered the Pennsylvania Congressman’s apparent shift in opinion.
    ==================================================================
    And we cant leave out CNN International (moonbat central)
    (Even they cant deny the progress in Iraq)

    CNN-I almost makes US domestic CNN look like Fox News. It skews hard to the left, plays up anti-American agitprop from reporters all over the world and is generally not a very friendly network to US interests. That background should put this report into some perspective.

    SEE HERE> http://hotair.com/archives/2007/12/28/video-cnn-international-reports-on-progress-in-iraq/

    Does this play well enough Mr. McJones ?
    or would care to go back to the original topic of 911 being all Bushs fault ?

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