This is an interesting post. We’d love to have your point of view represented in this week’s Carnival of Politics, a weekly blog magazine about politics. If you’re interested please consider submitting this post at http://www.carnivalofpolitcs.com/submit.
I should let you know, this isn’t a spam bot. I’ve actually read your post and think it is interesting. I think Rice’s apology shows a level of civility that we haven’t seen in mainstream politics in years.
Its always interesting to see how deep some morons will read into these “non incidents”
Supposedly now one the three peekers is an Obama supporter working in the campaign ranks.
I still dont get it.
This guy looked at Obamas passport application three times. The only thing there of any value is a SS#.
I think if Obama offerd a personal apology to Condi he would have to get on the phone and do the same for all the 911 victims families and all of America.
Next in line should be the black community for the AIDS remark. And then the rest of the country for” Goddam America”.
And lastly he should apologize just for being mixed up with such a piece of sh**.
Mostly because the latest is that Trinity is still up till today trying to justify the preachers ramblings.
And yea, Condi is a class act all the way. She did not deserve any of that from Wright.
Wright should be proud of her in the way she represents the black community as a role model and inspiration for black America instead of calling her names.
BDS goes deep.
Well, working in an administration is not just association – it’s collaboration, cooperation, accountability(ation). Senator Obama was never employed by Pastor Wright nor employed him other than his stint as religious outreach for the campaign. Not much of any quid pro quo.
Look, there are plenty of pro-choice Catholics, right? There are plenty of Protestants who do not think the Pope is the AntiChrist, right? There are lots of Atheist Jews. The fact is that many people attend services in which they disagree with the sermon, or some other part of the faith.
When you have a job, or hold elected office, it doesn’t matter what you believe or agree with. You do your job. If your job involves maintaining security, and security lapses, then you have failed that aspect of your job.
So bashing Obama over Wright is not the same as bashing someone who’s job it is to make sure the job is done right.
And if you guys think Wright is some abberation, then you don’t have a clue in the universe what black America is all about. Wright is ususally right.
He went there for twenty years and paid him through that little dish they pass around every sunday.
He doesnt neccessarily need to apologize for what Wright said, but he could apologize to the fact that she was subjected to the name calling.
Wright was representation on behalf of Obama as much as is anyone who works for Bush. He represents a large part of Obamas spiritual amd moral upbringing. Obama said so himself.
You have blasted anyone and everyone who has ever had the slightest connection to Bush. You have not one decent thing to say about anyone on his staff, ever !
GO READ YOUR OWN BLOG ! and get off your holier than thou high horse and wise up !
I can read ,and I have a memory.
I only blast people when they deserve it, Micky. If anything ever needed bashing, it’s the Bush administration, the GOP courts, and the late GOP majority on the Hill. They made the Dems look like successful Boy Scouts – an amazing accomplishment.
As of Pastor Wright, like I said, he’s usually right, and pretty mainstream among his contemporaries. The “black liberation theology” born of the Civil Right Movement is not new and Wright is just one among many. Obama could have attended almost any church of that genre and you guys would have bashed whoever the Pastor.
I have argued for years that the it’s time for the black church to back away from the movement. It has outlived its time. It was pivotal for many decades, but just isn’t producing as it did some years ago, and is downright backwards in many ways. This whole Wright flap points that up starkly. Obama maybe should have recognized this sooner, but then he probably didn’t have much choice. Trinity is “it” in Chicago for the black community. Just like St Peters and Temple Beth and Calvary Baptist are for Catholics, Jews, and Black Baptists in New York.
I guess just like you determine who deserves what you also get to determine what association is applicable on your terms and what is not.
You cant have it both ways.
Association is accosciation.
Payrole , faith, business, friendship, it dont matter, give it up.
Micky, I like you, but I completely disagree with you politically. Should I renounce you? I wouldn’t, ya’ know.
MORE EGGS!!! YEAH!!!
I had my grandmother-in-law up today. It was cool. I made ham, peas, yams, mashed potatoes, ham/mushroom gravy, salad, grapes and crackers and cheese, etc, etc. Cleaned the whole house up and down, did the yard up to spot-on perfection, etc. Thank God she’s on meds, otherwise she still would have found something to complain about. ;) I guess we all spend too much time looking for complaints about and not enough looking for ways to make things better. We should look ahead, not behind (unless you’re an a$$-man, in which case, you may carry on… :)
Another minister, John Hagee, calls the Catholic Church the “Mother Whore” and a “cult” and argues that Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment for New Orleans scheduling a gay pride parade that week. Hagee is a strong supporter of Israel because he seeks the unification of Israel so that the Rapture can happen and all Jews who do not convert to Christianity — including our friend and host eric — will be slaughtered and sent to hell.
John McCain was introduced by Hagee in South Carolina, an event displayed on McCain’s campaign website, and McCain expressed how “honored” and “pleased” he was to receive Hagee’s endorsement. McCain has stated that he is “very proud of the Pastor John Hagee’s spiritual leadership to thousands of people and I am proud of his commitment to the independence and the freedom of the state of Israel.”
Tell you what. Call on McCain to repudiate Hagee, repudiate his endorsement, and apologize for what Hagee has said, repudiate McCain until he does so, and then we can talk about poor Ms. Rice. And then let’s have a conversation about all the name-calling that takes place on this blog. Maybe we can get it published in the Jason Blair Times.
Jersey, one thing that you’ve taught me is that you can be an a$$ man without it being a sexual preferance.
Hagee stated a spiritual belief that god was punishing New Orleans.
Wright made blatent accusations of our government being behind 911 and aids.
Huge difference bro, huge.
The times couldnt be trusted to put in proper context anyway.
Remember the last article they published on McCain ?
No one said they were perfect.
What comes more to light is the hypocrisy factor on the left.
I myself have big problems with organized religion. but I dont preach on behalf of a dem/lib candidate filled with kumbaya , peace and togetherness and then get beligerant and violent when they dont accept my positions.
I am not of the position to believe that everyone can get along, we all never have.
The left has always been wishing for one world to just get along. A significant portion of lib supporters do not carry this message if you disagree with them.
The left has been getting all the attention for its hypocrisy lately. Spritzer, Wright, bombing recruiting centers and other antics that are always making headlines.
I dont accuse people of things I cant prove.
Nor have I ever condemed an entire administration by reason of association with its leader as Jersey has with Bush.
But I will hold Obama accountable for twenty years of support to a hate monger who spews hate via things he cant prove.
Hagee accused God of something.
Wright accused people of far worse things
Thats about as effective as Peewee Herman saying ” I know you are, but what am I ?”
And yea, only the first sentence was for jersey.
Still, you seem to confuse the difference between accusing God of one thing and man of other things.
What do Hagees statements have to do with Wrights ?
Your comparison is weak , if anything at all.
Saying a government unleashed a virus on blacks is an attack on our government.
Not a church.
Hagel is making his accusations in representation of god.
Wright made his statements from personal motive.
In my opinion it is fair to bash Obama for attending a popular, mainstream Black church where the pastor frequently uses God’s name in vain and hates the country that gives him the very freedom to say such arrogant and hateful things. Christianity and Reverend Wright do not seem to have much in common regarless of how much he helps the black communtiy.
It’s a wonderful post, Eric, and I agree with you that Condoleeza Rice does indeed have class and doesn’t deserve the disparaging and disgusting remarks from Reverend Wright, but evidently by considering the source I wouldn’t be surprised at anything coming out of his mouth. He’s vile!
” just wish we’d all just stop this guilt-by-association thing. It’s not fair to bash Obama for attending a popular, mainstream Black church.’
Its definatly fair. Especially since Obama has not taken a srong enough stance against this nasty angry man.
Like I said, hes either and idiot or a liar.
To say he wasnt hip to his preachers standings reveals ignorance.
To try and justify it is disengenuous since he already un invited him to a function not too long ago.
Theres definatly a disconnect here.
” I was not in the pews when these statements were made”
You mean to tell me that in twenty years he could of seen a hint of this Pastors anti white sentiments ?
I dont think hes a hateful person either. But I do believe he sympathizes in a certain directions and I really dont see him embracing his white half in his choices. His wife, his church and those he surrounds himself with.
Looking into ones past when running for preseident is not only expected, its right. And yea, you will find dirt on just about anyone. God knows I know.
But 20 years ! Of not realizing this mans feelings ! Thats not just some small episode in the mans life, that huge.
If Obama should get elected do we really want guys like Wright influincing or having access to our president ?
An old friend, William Sloane Coffin, who I’m sure many of you would find revolting, as well, once told me a story about a young preacher in a very old Congregational church in a small conservative New England town. The church board got together one Sunday and decided to fire the preacher. The entire board was at the meeting except for one elderly man who was home sick. He was a patriarch of the congregation, so the board decided to go to his home out of respect and include him on the decision they had made.
When they got there they told him they had voted unanimously to fire the young preacher and, while they naturally thought the elder would agree, they wanted to come to him and include him in the process. The elder said, “Well, you thought wrong.”
The board members said, “What do you mean? You don’t actually agree with all the things he says, do you?
The elder replied, “Of course not. But when my wife was on her death bed he spent the last eight hours of her life with her, and he spent the next eight hours with me. The man stays.”
If people walked out on their minister everytime he or she said something they didn’t agree with, there would be no one left in the pews. I certainly have had people disagree with me over the years, and there are no doubt things I have said from the pulpit I would like to take back or no longer agree with.
Ministry is about much more than just preaching. I don’t know all that much about Trinity but I suspect there was a lot more to Trinity’s ministry than just Rev. Wright’s provocative sermons. Nor do I believe that he was “vile” and “offensive” each and every Sunday. But it does appear that he got people thinking and that’s the purpose of preaching. The greatest compliment a parishioner can say to me is that they were still thinking about what I said a week or two ago.
Micky, I will engage you on one point. You’re absolutely right about there being a big difference between the Wright and Hagee situations. However, not in the manner you argue.
First of all, neither situation is about the ministers; they’re both about the senators. In the case of Barack Obama he has stood by his long-time minister even though he disagrees with many of his statements. That shows loyalty and courage.
John McCain, on the other hand, actively sought out someone who was not his minister for political purposes and then embraced the “spiritual leadership” Hagee was spewing.
I don’t think Obama should have to apologize for what his pastor said. I think he should tell America what he told Wright which should be, “Some of your ideas are dangerous to our country and I can’t be part of an organization that promotes those ideas”. However, Obama does want to be part of that congregation. He also found his wife smart, attractive, and her anti-American beliefs to be something that he could tolerate. These two actions lead me to believe that Obama is not really the uniter he pretends to be. Either he is lying to the black community in order to establish a camaradie of shared persecution or he is lying to the non-black community to be accepted as a broker between the two. He is trying to straddle the fence of activism so he doesn’t scare the whites, but is still admired by the blacks. We can’t know another person’s true thoughts and intentions, especially politicians, but I think Obama was just a smart, disappointed kid who couldn’t understand why his father left him and later realized that he could use his racial heritage to advance his career. He is open to the idea that America still has a lot of unresolved racism and that blacks are put at a disadvantage because of it. He chose to spend the rest of his life with someone who doesn’t seem to have a high opinion of white people in America. He chose to attend a church that seems to believe powerful white people wish to subjegate and kill blacks. Obama didn’t need to stay at his original church. Once his faith was established he could have believed as strongly in Jesus at any church. People do it all the time. Obama’s personal choices reflect on his private beliefs. However, he should not be held accountable for someone else’s words. The American people will hold him accountable for his personal choices over the course of the next few months.
Sorry got distracted and went off on a tangent. One of the other things I wanted to say was that I’m sure Wright has done a great deal of good for his community and America. I’m sure he’s helped the poor, fed the hungry, and given support to those in despair. He also promotes hateful and destructive ideas. So, how do you balance these two things? Easy. You applaud his good acts and condemn his bad ones. If you are a member of the church board you tell him to shut up about those improper things. If he doesn’t, you either take away his pulpit and leave him in charge of the soup kitchen or you just get rid of him altogether. As a longstanding member of the church Obama should have been advising Wright to talk about God and leave the color commentary to ESPN. Obama can be justified in being proud of the good things Wright did, but he did have a responsibility to admonish the pastor before running for President when Obama worried that he might have to answer for it. I don’t think Obama said anything to Wright until he had to worry about the media. That allowed Wright to think Obama felt the same way. He thought he had Obama’s silent endorsement and reciprocated with a vocal one of his own.
One minister was saying what he believed gods reasons were.
The other was accusing people, just people from his own personal perspective.
No where did Wright say he that his beliefs and accusations were inspired by God or anything other than his own warped vile suspicions.
“First of all, neither situation is about the ministers; they’re both about the senators. In the case of Barack Obama he has stood by his long-time minister even though he disagrees with many of his statements. That shows loyalty and courage.”
Obama is either incredibly niave or a bad liar.
This church is Obamas only real tie to the average black man in middle America. That will be one of his strongest supporters in this election. He risks alienating that base if he tells his pastor to take flying leap. Most of the black community will se it as a disenfranchisment of their support for him. Obama has no ties in his past to connect him to this part of America. He has always been in the upper echilons of a black elitest community.
I’ll bet right now he would love to just smack the crap out of Wright and tell him to shut the hell up.
But a presidential candidate expects me to believe that after 20 years of knowing this man that he had no idea ?
He is an incredibly bad liar, and niave for two reasons.
1) Not being hip to the pastors hate.
2) Or expecting me to believe he wasnt hip.
Interestingly enough, Trinity United Church of Christ is part of the United Church of Christ, which after a few mergers over the years, is the successor to the Pilgrims and the Puritans. The same Congregational church that the elder refused to fire its pastor for things he said from the pulpit, is the same denomination as Trinity UCC.
Someone said Obama “chose to attend a church that seems to believe powerful white people wish to subjegate and kill blacks.” This country has a long history of churches filled with powerful white people who have wished exactly that on blacks, and to deny that, or to ignore that context is what is naive. Am I endorsing what Wright said? Hardly, but I can understand and appreciate the context in which statements like these are said and how they are snipped apart from everything else that is said and taken out of context.
What is even more telling is that no one here on this blog has taken on John McCain for actually going out and seeking an endorsement from a preacher who has said equally vile things about Americans. Why haven’t any of you said anything about that, or is this all really just a political stunt?