“Palestinians are no longer pawns of the other Arab states. The states are tired of the conflict. They want no part of it. It is the people living in some of the states that want the conflict. ”
As much as I respect Mr. Pipes, this statement I must disagree with. My father-in-law’s family was born in Jerusalem and considered Palestinian. They were convinced in 48 to abandon their home and moved to Syria. My father-in-law’s brother recently moved to the U.S. after decades of working for democracy from the inside, but he was never allowed Syrian citizenship. His government papers describe him as Palestinian and the the government would never allow him to become a Syrian. Additionally, for all the family members, any children born to males identified as Palestinian are also classified as Palestinian. This is a Syrian government action, not self-styling by Palestinians who think of themselves as exiles.
George is a great guy and I’ve enjoyed talking to him about the differences in culture and relationships between Christians and Muslims in Syria as well as the Palestinian question. He understands the impossibility of allowing Palestinians and their descendants back into Israel because of their overwhelming numbers. His suggestion is a quota of a certain number of time.
He seems a little more fixated on the issue of splitting Jerusalem between Israelis and Palestinians. He thinks it’s a big issue for Pali’s and I’ve told him that I don’t think Israel could ever consider such an option.
George and my father-in-law Tony are way past 1948. Tony doesn’t even want to discuss it because it has nothing to do with his life as an American since 196? (63 or 65 or something). George tries to write on the subject to other Arabs because he wants the conflict to end, but he largely doesn’t care either. He just wants to be able to get everyone past it. Considering himself more a Syrian, he focuses more on the need for true democracy in Syria.
I’ve advocated for some time that Israel needs to draw their own lines and enforce them. The fence is a great start, but I disagree with allowing Gaza to remain Palestinian. I figured Israel should annex Gaza, separate the west bank from Israel and say that’s the way it is. Palestinians should be relocated from Gaza to the west bank and the Israeli government should announce that they recognize the new state of Palestine and try to get other governments to do likewise. Then, move on with life, including reprisals against terrorists. That’s just me, though.
Incidentally, George told me what I heard in the news. The election of Hamas wasn’t support of them, but a reaction against the incredible corruption of Fatah that has siphoned money and care from the Palestinians.
Personally, I think Tony and George are exceptions and that too many Palestinians are willing to die for a misplaced ideal. The fact that Tony and George are Christians probably allows them more mental flexibility in the consideration of the Palestinian question.
Anyway, I wanted to point out that the Syrian government is standing in the way of Palestinians getting past 1948. The women in the family have married Syrian men, therefore becoming Syrians themselves, and don’t really care about the issue except to the extent that their husbands do. I’ve seen that, also, with the visits of some of them. It’s all anecdotal, but I think it’s true.
P.S.: Their old home is now some sort of government building, I think a consulate for a foreign government, maybe Belgium.
Daniel Pipes really scares me. Not personally but geopolitically, he really scares me. His rhetoric reminds me of some pretty deadly programs of the past. It’s his right to speak his mind, and I’m thankful for it, but man ‘o man does he say some pretty scary things. His words read like the beat of the drums of war - aggressive war.
Excellent post. Pipes, along with Frank Gaffney, really understand this stuff. They “get it”. Unfortunately our own President and Secretary of State Condi Rice, don’t “get it’. What boggles my mind is that some uninformed or misguided folks actually want Rice on the ticket with McCain. As it is now, I really feel there is no candidate to support. If McCain puts Rice on the ticket with him, well, there is no way I could support such a ticket. Would have to make a write in, or set the election out altogether.
Eric, Interesting article. Too much to cover in too little time, but from the gates, his comment, “Israel lives under a curse, that being the threat of extinction.” is a non-starter from the get-go. Yes, Israel lives under a curse, but it’s because of past sins - not eradicating all non Israelis when directed - that they are cursed which is likely why they don’t cut off the power and water - because it’s a self-inflicted burden. Having said that, he provides catchy tidbits that capture nuances relevant to the Arab/Israeli/Christian struggle and recovers nicely with, “The right of Israel to exist is not, and will never be, negotiable.” They will be there until the end - whether the US is there or not…
Daniel Pipes is scary because he is telling the unvarnished truth. There is no solution that won’t cost many lives. Foreign aid sent there buys more weapons than food, and is probably seen as tribute rather than humanitarian aid. The mosques spread hatred and glamorize martyrdom. The venom is fed to children as soon as they can talk. What can you do with people like that?
Jersey, This is a Biblical thing to which you don’t subscribe - many faiths have different variations, but they all agree that Israel is the chosen nation and will be in existence during the end times. If one is not disposed to believe in one or any of these variations, that’s fine by me!
I’ve had the privilege of attending speeches by Dr. Pipes in 2001 as well as last year …He tells it as he sees it in his professorial style…
Very few understand or are willing to articulate the bottom line as clearly as him…We may not like it, but he’s right on…and his knowledge of Islam is far greater than the vast majority of those representing Muslim groups in North America…he is a true scholar…
But Eagle, it’s just sooooooooooooo insane. I hear you, Iget what you’re saying, but it’s sooooooooooooo unreasonably, irrationally, unintelledgibly (sp?) insane. I guess it’s sorta fine by me too, but I wish we could at least put it in coherent cantext. (Sorry, I was reading Dawkins earlier today and I’m feeling annoyingly critical).
Brian et al, we are the West. We are the most prosperous people on Earth. We’re lucky to have been born into it and we’re deserving of more when we add to it (rather than just leech it like Baby Boomer Laizzez Fairers). We have our problems, but we usually resolve them relatively peaceably. We need not fear the poor, resource-centric, unenfranchised Third World. All this talk of fear of Islam strikes me as completely and utterly pointless.
I really don’t care what most of the world thinks of America, as long as I stay out of their business, they can just stay out of mine. Israel is the sticker here, not America. We are and should be their friend, but we should never be so misguided as to believe that the problems we face here in America are exactly the same as those in Israel. This isn’t apples and oranges - this is grapes and watermelons. America is a massive empire, Israel is the small Jewish country. Speaking as an ostensibly Catholic atheist who never had a problem with “Jews,” Israel has a big problem. A really, really, really big problem. It’s like if a bunch of educated suburbanites suddenly moved into Camden, NJ, tried to gentrify the whole town, and then complained about the neighborhood! And this after leaving a bad situation in the first place! I would never begrudge Judaism Israel., but I often wonder if it was worth it.
Hamas leader Yunis Al-Astal proclaims Islam will soon conquer Israel & Rome. Hamas playing bad cop; Fatah good cop here. Pope Benedict XVI will be addressing the United Nations soon elevating terrorist Abbas to PM status and Bush will be grinning before the cameras. Bush chose May 60th year of Israel’s independence to give east Jerusalem freely to the terrorist Abbas. 60 minutes showed Bush’s democratic Iraq at work. One billion in US dollars is missing. This money the Iraqi government can’t find is being used to kill US soldiers. US state department is investigating. Condo & Bush seem determined in destroying Americas security and Israel’s security before January 20, 2009. Even Israeli generals wonder about Bush when Bush moves to sell the latest jet fighters and radar technology to the Saudis. Is Bush really interested in democracy? Ask the Tibetans who are abused by the Chinese. Bush is still going to the Olympics in the true spirit of his grandfather Prescott Bush. President Bush is like a Trojan Horse inside Jerusalem’s gates; Trojan horse will become activated upon Bush’s return visit to Israel in May. Good show. Abbas & pope Benedict XVI meetings behind closed doors then before the anti-Semitic UN the infallible pope pleads Abbas’s case. Jewish homes on fire won’t matter, Darfur won’t matter and the Tibetan crisis won’t be considered. Tony Blair, Bush, Abbas, Putin, Condo, Moon and the pope shall make Abbas the butcher of 11 athletes in Munich a saint crowning him with east Jerusalem and Samaria. Criminals on USA’s Death Row have to be asking themselves when looking at Abbas’s crimes, “What the hell am I doing here?” People in the USA are executed for crimes far less than what Abbas did. When all these anti-Semites are coming together against Israel, one might believe the best answer is a quick change in Israel’s government where a new party would come together to represent Israel’s 6,000,000 Jews.
papundits said,
April 7, 2008 at 10:16 am
He ranks high with the other Anti-Islamist Terrorist Scholars.
Unfortunately they are mostly ignored by the MSM (Main Stream Media)
Excellent post!
Keep up the good work.
Ed
Joshua Godinez said,
April 7, 2008 at 11:46 am
“Palestinians are no longer pawns of the other Arab states. The states are tired of the conflict. They want no part of it. It is the people living in some of the states that want the conflict. ”
As much as I respect Mr. Pipes, this statement I must disagree with. My father-in-law’s family was born in Jerusalem and considered Palestinian. They were convinced in 48 to abandon their home and moved to Syria. My father-in-law’s brother recently moved to the U.S. after decades of working for democracy from the inside, but he was never allowed Syrian citizenship. His government papers describe him as Palestinian and the the government would never allow him to become a Syrian. Additionally, for all the family members, any children born to males identified as Palestinian are also classified as Palestinian. This is a Syrian government action, not self-styling by Palestinians who think of themselves as exiles.
George is a great guy and I’ve enjoyed talking to him about the differences in culture and relationships between Christians and Muslims in Syria as well as the Palestinian question. He understands the impossibility of allowing Palestinians and their descendants back into Israel because of their overwhelming numbers. His suggestion is a quota of a certain number of time.
He seems a little more fixated on the issue of splitting Jerusalem between Israelis and Palestinians. He thinks it’s a big issue for Pali’s and I’ve told him that I don’t think Israel could ever consider such an option.
George and my father-in-law Tony are way past 1948. Tony doesn’t even want to discuss it because it has nothing to do with his life as an American since 196? (63 or 65 or something). George tries to write on the subject to other Arabs because he wants the conflict to end, but he largely doesn’t care either. He just wants to be able to get everyone past it. Considering himself more a Syrian, he focuses more on the need for true democracy in Syria.
I’ve advocated for some time that Israel needs to draw their own lines and enforce them. The fence is a great start, but I disagree with allowing Gaza to remain Palestinian. I figured Israel should annex Gaza, separate the west bank from Israel and say that’s the way it is. Palestinians should be relocated from Gaza to the west bank and the Israeli government should announce that they recognize the new state of Palestine and try to get other governments to do likewise. Then, move on with life, including reprisals against terrorists. That’s just me, though.
Incidentally, George told me what I heard in the news. The election of Hamas wasn’t support of them, but a reaction against the incredible corruption of Fatah that has siphoned money and care from the Palestinians.
Personally, I think Tony and George are exceptions and that too many Palestinians are willing to die for a misplaced ideal. The fact that Tony and George are Christians probably allows them more mental flexibility in the consideration of the Palestinian question.
Anyway, I wanted to point out that the Syrian government is standing in the way of Palestinians getting past 1948. The women in the family have married Syrian men, therefore becoming Syrians themselves, and don’t really care about the issue except to the extent that their husbands do. I’ve seen that, also, with the visits of some of them. It’s all anecdotal, but I think it’s true.
P.S.: Their old home is now some sort of government building, I think a consulate for a foreign government, maybe Belgium.
Jersey McJones said,
April 7, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Daniel Pipes really scares me. Not personally but geopolitically, he really scares me. His rhetoric reminds me of some pretty deadly programs of the past. It’s his right to speak his mind, and I’m thankful for it, but man ‘o man does he say some pretty scary things. His words read like the beat of the drums of war - aggressive war.
JMJ
john clements said,
April 7, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Excellent post. Pipes, along with Frank Gaffney, really understand this stuff. They “get it”. Unfortunately our own President and Secretary of State Condi Rice, don’t “get it’. What boggles my mind is that some uninformed or misguided folks actually want Rice on the ticket with McCain. As it is now, I really feel there is no candidate to support. If McCain puts Rice on the ticket with him, well, there is no way I could support such a ticket. Would have to make a write in, or set the election out altogether.
Eagle 6 said,
April 7, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Eric, Interesting article. Too much to cover in too little time, but from the gates, his comment, “Israel lives under a curse, that being the threat of extinction.” is a non-starter from the get-go. Yes, Israel lives under a curse, but it’s because of past sins - not eradicating all non Israelis when directed - that they are cursed which is likely why they don’t cut off the power and water - because it’s a self-inflicted burden. Having said that, he provides catchy tidbits that capture nuances relevant to the Arab/Israeli/Christian struggle and recovers nicely with, “The right of Israel to exist is not, and will never be, negotiable.” They will be there until the end - whether the US is there or not…
Jersey McJones said,
April 8, 2008 at 7:36 am
Until the end of what, Eagle?
JMJ
charly martel said,
April 8, 2008 at 9:39 am
Daniel Pipes is scary because he is telling the unvarnished truth. There is no solution that won’t cost many lives. Foreign aid sent there buys more weapons than food, and is probably seen as tribute rather than humanitarian aid. The mosques spread hatred and glamorize martyrdom. The venom is fed to children as soon as they can talk. What can you do with people like that?
Eagle 6 said,
April 8, 2008 at 10:41 am
Jersey, This is a Biblical thing to which you don’t subscribe - many faiths have different variations, but they all agree that Israel is the chosen nation and will be in existence during the end times. If one is not disposed to believe in one or any of these variations, that’s fine by me!
Brian said,
April 8, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I’ve had the privilege of attending speeches by Dr. Pipes in 2001 as well as last year …He tells it as he sees it in his professorial style…
Very few understand or are willing to articulate the bottom line as clearly as him…We may not like it, but he’s right on…and his knowledge of Islam is far greater than the vast majority of those representing Muslim groups in North America…he is a true scholar…
Jersey McJones said,
April 9, 2008 at 3:24 pm
But Eagle, it’s just sooooooooooooo insane. I hear you, Iget what you’re saying, but it’s sooooooooooooo unreasonably, irrationally, unintelledgibly (sp?) insane. I guess it’s sorta fine by me too, but I wish we could at least put it in coherent cantext. (Sorry, I was reading Dawkins earlier today and I’m feeling annoyingly critical).
Brian et al, we are the West. We are the most prosperous people on Earth. We’re lucky to have been born into it and we’re deserving of more when we add to it (rather than just leech it like Baby Boomer Laizzez Fairers). We have our problems, but we usually resolve them relatively peaceably. We need not fear the poor, resource-centric, unenfranchised Third World. All this talk of fear of Islam strikes me as completely and utterly pointless.
I really don’t care what most of the world thinks of America, as long as I stay out of their business, they can just stay out of mine. Israel is the sticker here, not America. We are and should be their friend, but we should never be so misguided as to believe that the problems we face here in America are exactly the same as those in Israel. This isn’t apples and oranges - this is grapes and watermelons. America is a massive empire, Israel is the small Jewish country. Speaking as an ostensibly Catholic atheist who never had a problem with “Jews,” Israel has a big problem. A really, really, really big problem. It’s like if a bunch of educated suburbanites suddenly moved into Camden, NJ, tried to gentrify the whole town, and then complained about the neighborhood! And this after leaving a bad situation in the first place! I would never begrudge Judaism Israel., but I often wonder if it was worth it.
JMJ
TJ Skylark said,
April 14, 2008 at 12:13 am
Hamas leader Yunis Al-Astal proclaims Islam will soon conquer Israel & Rome. Hamas playing bad cop; Fatah good cop here. Pope Benedict XVI will be addressing the United Nations soon elevating terrorist Abbas to PM status and Bush will be grinning before the cameras. Bush chose May 60th year of Israel’s independence to give east Jerusalem freely to the terrorist Abbas. 60 minutes showed Bush’s democratic Iraq at work. One billion in US dollars is missing. This money the Iraqi government can’t find is being used to kill US soldiers. US state department is investigating. Condo & Bush seem determined in destroying Americas security and Israel’s security before January 20, 2009. Even Israeli generals wonder about Bush when Bush moves to sell the latest jet fighters and radar technology to the Saudis. Is Bush really interested in democracy? Ask the Tibetans who are abused by the Chinese. Bush is still going to the Olympics in the true spirit of his grandfather Prescott Bush. President Bush is like a Trojan Horse inside Jerusalem’s gates; Trojan horse will become activated upon Bush’s return visit to Israel in May. Good show. Abbas & pope Benedict XVI meetings behind closed doors then before the anti-Semitic UN the infallible pope pleads Abbas’s case. Jewish homes on fire won’t matter, Darfur won’t matter and the Tibetan crisis won’t be considered. Tony Blair, Bush, Abbas, Putin, Condo, Moon and the pope shall make Abbas the butcher of 11 athletes in Munich a saint crowning him with east Jerusalem and Samaria. Criminals on USA’s Death Row have to be asking themselves when looking at Abbas’s crimes, “What the hell am I doing here?” People in the USA are executed for crimes far less than what Abbas did. When all these anti-Semites are coming together against Israel, one might believe the best answer is a quick change in Israel’s government where a new party would come together to represent Israel’s 6,000,000 Jews.