Can the history lesson for once, Alright ?
“When did the peaceniks on the left become so violent? ”
Point being, when did you guys go from sitting in hallways to destroying property and assulting people physically and verbally ?
Trying to cast equal blame in this matter is a losing battle for you simply due to the fact that whenever there is a disruption somehwere its always lefty looney fanatics.
Blowing things up, chasing free speech off stages, burning things , eco terrorists , code pink maximus lunatics screaming at congressional hearings, blocking traffic, defacing religious symbols and desacrating religious services for those who want to worship in peace.
The list goes on and on….
Ok. I read both versions jersey.
Unforunatly the post you refer is half cocked and full of omissions. No names of witnesses and the guy talking says he didnt see quite a few things.
Its crappy journalism at best.
here is the NY post version which definatly paints a more accurate and believable picture.
There’s no way I believe that story from the Post. It makes no sense. It figures that goofy trash-rag, the Post, and Fox, another “News”Corp living joke, would print such a ridiculous story. Anyone who believes this – boy, o, boy do I ever have a bridge that’s perfect for you! LOL!
Yea well, obviously you were the first one to buy that bridge.
You couldnt put it up for sale unless you owned it from the beggining
That is most likely why the obvious makes no sense to you
Why would a man with his daughter in a wheelchair start a physical alteration unless the girl had been harmed or was in danger ?
Read both and gather the facts and then cleanse with a process of logical elimination.
Did the cops arrest him for assult for no reason ?
I’m sure they talked to a number of witnesses right after that
This is a joke, right? Since when do peace activists, even VIOLENT ANGRY ones, beat up girls in wheelchairs? The story just doesn’t make any sense on the face of it. I’m thinking that German Talis is about to run into a lot of money – mostly from the Lovetros.
He’s part of the We Are Change organization. They are non-violent peace activists. They do not beat up random children in wheelchairs just because someone asks them to be quiet. They do, however, get attacked, threatened, harassed and unlawfully arrested. This entire story is a crock and this will become apparent as the lawsuit against the Lovetros and the police gets underway.
Okay Micky, I just watched the video ad nauseum. There’s no taped evidence here of an assault on a young lady in a wheelchair. And yes, he sounds like a loony. But then, as the Big Giant Head (great moniker, by the way) says, it does take guts to horse around with the Secret Service. And yes guys, the story sounds like a crock. Look, I’ve heard of stranger things, I just don’t think this went down the way the RWM is portraying it. The guy was annoying protester. Either the story was completely made up to cover for some service guy that lost his head, or some shmuck actually did attack this dude in an ideological furor (or both). Either of these scenarios are far more likely than the Post’s Story.
I’d rather let it go. I hope this kid doesn’t get into too much trouble. He reminds me of that character from The Jerk, Iron B@!!s McKenzie. I know I wouldn’t get in the face of a ss guy unless my life depended on it. Good for protesters. They test the system. Keeps ‘em on ‘der toes. I should have protested authority when I was a kid instead of just flaunting myself in front of it for laughs. It was a laugh, or 2000, yeah, but probably not nearly as rewarding. On the other hand, I’d rather not screw around with the service. Those guys are for real.
I never said there was any evidence of anything other than the fact that he was obviously off to a good start.
It takes an idiot to screw with the secret service. The run a pretty thin line when it comes to BS.
It represents some really bad decision making.
I’m sure you’ve heard of stranger things, you’re a lefty.
It figures. Go to the defense of the bad guy with all the points against him. Typical lib ,defend the perp. Hell get his lawyer, he’ll get his rights that he babbles about not having while he screws up every one elses rights to just assemble and hear some people talk who had nothing to do with his beef.
How would you like it if you were playing for an audience and some one unplugged all the amps because they didnt like your music ? Or brought in a boombox and cranked it up ?
The bottom line is that he was arrested for criminal tresspass and assult, but not the other guy.
THOSE ARE THE FACTS
Lots of people get arrested for lots of things they never did. Especially people who contradict the status quo and especially people who do so loudly. Likewise lots of people NEVER get arrested for things that they SHOULD get arrested for, like assaulting someone with your crippled daughter’s wheelchair then pounding him with your fists because you don’t like what he has to say about 9/11. And being well concealed within the status quo increases your odds of escape.
“It takes an idiot to screw with the secret service.”
Thank you. LOL!
Ya’ know, I actually didn’t want to say it, but yes, it does indeed and in deed take an idiot. It’s one thing to protest, and I appreciate if not agree completely with his cause, but it’s another thing to just look for trouble – to pull a Marx Brothers routine in Manhatten with the First Lady – that’s just stupid. Funny, maybe, but really just stupid. But then stupid is funny afterall. And in a few ways he is right.
I’ve been arrested unjustly myself. But THE FACT is that most people are not.
Usually charges are lowerd in plea bargains. But most of the time the guy arrested is wrong.
I dont know where you get “assault by wheelchair ” from.
The status quo at the time was a peaceful book reading being done by people who never did a thing to this loser. To top it off it was a childs book so I’m going to assume there were kids there.
The guy is an idiot as he has clearly shown. His decision making was in question by secret serviced long before he opened his yap. If hes stupid enough to antagonize the SS then I would put my money on him being the a**hole here.
You contribute no facts to this conversation other than you perception and conveluted suspicions.
“I dont know where you get “assault by wheelchair ” from.”
Eyewitness testimony says that Mr. Lovetro started the whole thing by going out of his way to ram German with his daughter’s wheelchair (with his daughter IN it) then proceeded to punch him. Lawsuit in the works against the New York Post and I think also against Mr. Lovetro and possibly the police.
“The guy is an idiot as he has clearly shown”
Maybe. Fortunately (or unfortunately – depending on which angle you’re looking at this) it is not against the law to be an idiot. Being an idiot in and of itself is not an arrestable offense, nor should it be.
“Maybe. Fortunately (or unfortunately – depending on which angle you’re looking at this) it is not against the law to be an idiot. Being an idiot in and of itself is not an arrestable offense, nor should it be.”
Being an idiot is most always unfortunate from any perspective, and leads to poor decision making. In this guys case , so far its proven true.
And please, he did not get aressted for being an idiot. He was aressted because of his idiocy.
Eyewitness testimony is the most easily miscontrued and least valuble evidence there is.
I heard the moonbat on the video , she said ” I think” and “it looked like” and “Im not sure”.
Counter charges are always in the works as much as appeals are, so what ?
He was arrested and charged.
Common sense dictates that he was performoing all acts of aggression from the deal with the SS up to when he started yapping at the Bush’s.
I’ve been popped more than the average guy, and also done a fair amount of time.
Every shmuck you talk to in jail is innocent.
I,ve heard it all
The odds are not in his favor by any means.
I have not convicted this guy yet, I have only indicated my suspicions.
Yet Mr. Head is all ready to set him free and totally conviced of his innocense.
“Being an idiot is most always unfortunate from any perspective, and leads to poor decision making.”
I didn’t say that being an idiot was not unfortunate, I said that it was fortunate (or unfortunate depending on ones perspective) that BEING an idiot is not ILLEGAL.
“And please, he did not get aressted for being an idiot. He was aressted because of his idiocy.”
Huh? Niether being an idiot nor being in posession of idiocy are unlawful or arrestable offenses. Shouldn’t one have to be in violation of a law in order to be justly arrested? What law did he break? Or do you just want to put people in jail that question the government?
” have not convicted this guy yet, I have only indicated my suspicions.”
A protester from a peaceful protest organization gets asked by some dude to be quiet and his reaction to this is to start beating up a crippled girl in a wheelchair? Shouldn’t that account warrant the most suspicion?
You obviously havnt seen the video of his assine decision to harass a SS agent.
He actually is NOT peaceful.
Also, he is disturbing the majorities right to a peaceful assembly.
He took someones peace and disrupted it for his own egotistic gain.
His arrogance and idiocy leads him to believe that his rights are more important than those of the peaceful assembly that gatherd there for that purpose
The people that went there to listen to Mrs Bush and daughter deserve no suspicion.
What dont you understand about looking suspicious when you piss on someone elses party ? And harass and argue with the SS and try to get access to a restricted area ?
You seem to only want to argue your biased feelings and not anything of any real consequence or substance.
I will be glad to debate you if you can come up with some forms of documentation that show you actually have a clue as to what you are talking about.
But untill then …
My apologies, I did not see the previous note you left.
I feel I’m obligated to answer you for some reason.
“Huh? Niether being an idiot nor being in posession of idiocy are unlawful or arrestable offenses. ”
Idiots usually get arrested for being idiotic. That was the point.
I dont feel like playing semantics
“Shouldn’t one have to be in violation of a law in order to be justly arrested? ”
NO. You are arrested for suspicion. The courts decide if you were in violation.
Arrested means just that.
“Or do you just want to put people in jail that question the government?”
How convenient that you disregard the real crux of the issue. It was not his right to question the government that is the issue here. It is the right of the innocent to assemble without molestation.
There a millions of ways to get heard in this country. I have a feeling this poor slob just wanted to get some attention. He obviously failed miserably to get his message out.
And the message was an incredibly old one not worth repeating since every radical moonbat has been saying it for years now And it has been disproven time and time again.
Watch the video. The cop tells him what he is being charged with. And then the courts will decide.
You accepted this debate and challenged me by quoting my statement, so get real, please. If you want peace go away.
This arguement is foolish already.
You obviously think that we can just run into any function in the world and start screaming our opinions because of free speech.
This function was paid for and the space reserved for it. It was theirs for their purpose. Not his.
How about I just storm into any sppech being givin by anyone and start yapping /
What dont you understand about common decency and realizing thet your rights stop where another mans rights begin ?
He was operating by force, not freedom.
“Hold on there a minute, what exactly is it that you are saying has been disproven time and time again? ”
His message that he was screaming ! Can you even read ?
Watch the video or read the article and pay attention here.
The man was harrasing an SS agent and trying to access a restricted area.
Any sane person would find that outrageously suspicious.
And quite frankly if I were ther agent I would of arrested him on the spot for harassing and hindering the security detail
Common sense dictates the girl in the wheelchair was probably asked if she had been hit. I’m willing to bet she said yes. I’m also willing to give her character the benefit of the doubt instead of the idiot
“Common sense dictates the girl in the wheelchair was probably asked if she had been hit. I’m willing to bet she said yes. I’m also willing to give her character the benefit of the doubt instead of the idiot.”
If you believe that, then you are one gullible authoritarian sycophant.
Jersey if you think for one minute that the cops did not ask her that question you have been gone too long.
Please, be serious. Really man, I always thought you’d been there and done that, guess not.
Gosh the girl is screaming and crying, the newspapers are reporting it.
Christ o mighty help me if that would not follow the flow of any normal investigation.
You know, like when the cops show up at a domestic quarrel or the scene of an altercation ?
Thats the usually the FIRST thing they ask. Ans seeing as how he has been charged with assult on the girl any of the dumbest cops in the world would even ask her.
Man, I’m glad I’m on this island because there is definatly in the air over there.
This is like teaching pigs to sing.
This is the most idiotic debate I have ever been in.
I think Head and Jersey ( got dandruff?) are just being “A” holes on purpose.
When a SS service agent tells you to beat it, you beat it. And you dont try to argue past him.
The agent said nothing to this moron untill he tried to go where he was not supposed to. Showed him his I.D and told him that he could not go to the restricted area.
The agent was actually trying to do his job and ignore this piece of **** while he kept blabbing about his rights.
The agent was actually being nice by not having the idiot hauled away.
Think I’ll go Carnegie hall and stand up in the middle of a concert and start screaming about what a wretched woman Hillary is and see how long I last with the free speech BS reasoning.
I’m thankful there are people out there who test the limits of our liberty. The dude may be a little nuts, but at least he has the you-know-whats to stand up for what he believes. I find it extermely difficult to think that a man like that would assault a girl in wheelchair with cerebral palsey. That’s just insane. It makes no sense whatsoever. On the other hand, hot-headed ideological conservative zealots being prone to violence makes perfect sense to me.
“Hold on there a minute, what exactly is it that you are saying has been disproven time and time again? ”
“His message that he was screaming ! Can you even read ?”
Ok. Let’s look at what he said. “How do you feel about people believing that your father was responsible for 9/11?” That’s not even a claim, it’s a question. How do you disprove a question? Even if he had said “People believe your father is repsonsible for 9/11″ that’s patently true since Gary himself obviously believes that her father was responsible for 9/11 and he is a “person”.
Then he said that our soldiers were sent to Iraq based on false intelligence. I haven’t seen this disproved even ONCE much less time and time again. In fact even the US government was admitted that our intelligence was bad. And it has since come out that the whitehouse had been planning to invade Iraq/Afghanistan/etc prior to 9/11 and was attempting to fix the intelligence around this agenda.
And to this day no nuclear weapons or WMD stockpiles have been found in Iraq and the US senate reported in 2006 that there had not been any functional link between Saddam and al-qaeda – the two primary reasons we were given over and over again ad naseum for invading Iraq.
And then Bush sadisticly jokes about the whole thing at an annual Radio and Television Corrspondence Dinner.
So Gary’s statement about bad intelligence leading us into Iraq is so widely accepted that even president Bush openly and publicly makes fun of himself for it, but yet somehow you insist that this has been disproven time and time again.
Standing up for your rights is one thing.
The issue should not be his right to screw things up for everyone else.
I stand up for what I believe. but not at the discomfort of innocent people. And I dont make an a**hole out of myself in the process.
He quickly found out what his rights were, trust me.
What he did has nothing to do with large testicles.
It has to do with a typical self centerd liberal ” I am the center of it all” arroganced and selfishness.
Even if he did not hit the girl in the chair, it was a childs book reading and signing.
And this peice of work started his pathetic yapping and crap with kids around and a girl in a wheel chair next to him who did not deserve one bit what he did.
So much for caring so much about the kids , huh libs ?
All the points are against this guy.
He has shown extremly poor decision making from the get go and then later also.
I would like you to answer my question Jersey.
How would you like it if you were playing for an audience. Had paid for and rented the auditorium and some one unplugged all the amps because they didnt like your music ? Or brought in a boombox and some megaphones and just ruined your whole concert ?
“I find it extermely difficult to think that a man like that would assault a girl in wheelchair with cerebral palsey. That’s just insane. It makes no sense whatsoever. ”
And by the way, the disabled are one of the most assulted groups in this country.
It makes perfect sense.
I saw it happen myself at a girls birthday party we had on the beach in Wakiki.
We had a area roped off and you had to pay 2$ to get in because it was a kegger.
Sharon was her name. Some punk walked up to her all pissed off because he couldnt get in cuz he was broke and asked her if she wanted to dance. Knowing she was paralized he blasted her upside the face when she nicely sad no.
I saw this from about a 100ft away an went into a full blown rage and charged at this guy. He did not see me coming and I hit him like a semi going 100 mph, and broke his leg.
If this idiot you are so much in love with did hit this girl I’m surprised her father didnt kill him.
It was military beach open to the public. The biggest pleasure was when the MPS got there and made him walk 5 blocks to their hut on the leg of his that I broke.
When he came out of that hut he looked like a raw steak.
Hes not that great.
Ant shmuck can do what he did.
If he was so concerned about getting his message out he would of put some better thought and planning into it.
Hes just a bitter, lonely, selfish little man with no other way to get attention .
If you and the head actually have some believable examples of this guy showing intelligent decision making you will maybe succeed in makinga decent point other than your bloated sentiments for idiots.
I at least brought something tangible to this discussion with a video to show exactly what a moron this guy is and was from the start.
Neither of you have brought anything but your own box of kleenex
…..and I have plenty of links to educated you about everything I’ve stated above but this crappy forum is rejecting every post I make that has a website url in it, so I’ve had to remove all the links from my last post.
bghead, We went to war because Saddam violated at least 24 UN Resolutions and UN Sanctions which include, but are not limited to: torturing innocent civilians, DEVELOPING WMD, and harboring terrorist camps. I’m not sure what selective reading you use to cite, “the US senate reported in 2006 that there had not been any functional link between Saddam and al-qaeda” because I attended numerous briefings “behind the vault” at the Pentagon and FORSCOM that show a direct link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. I have also been to the chemical manufacturing facility in Taji where Chemical Ali and his scientists developed and produced WMD. The media is wrong. You can cite as many articles, video clips, or whatever you want – I’ve been there, seen it, heard it, and lived it – and I’m going back in two weeks to live it for another year because I know what I’ve seen, heard, felt, and lived, and if we don’t help Iraq maintain a balance of power in the Middle East, we’ll all be speaking Arabic in a few years…or be dead.
“How do you feel about people believing that your father was responsible for 9/11?
That’s not even a claim, it’s a question. ”
The people he is talking about that believe that BS make that claim.
And that claim is BS because the plans for 911 were made 5 years in advance of Bushs presidency.
He is no way responsable.
All previous administrations own that blame.
“And it has since come out that the whitehouse had been planning to invade Iraq/Afghanistan/etc prior to 9/11 and was attempting to fix the intelligence around this agenda.
Do you proof that anyone was fixing anything?
“So Gary’s statement about bad intelligence leading us into Iraq is so widely accepted that even president Bush openly and publicly makes fun of himself for it, but yet somehow you insist that this has been disproven time and time again.”
I’m tired of your delusional dribble that I’ve heard from every monnbat for 5 years now.
here is all the “disprovement” and facts you need.
Because as much as I know you would love to change the subject here its not about Iraq. Its about some confused selfish little germ.
Bghead, I have read many articles and seen reports of events in which I participated – and the reports are generally wrong or skewed. You are going to split hairs about whether they were Al Qaeda terrorist camps or simply generic terrorist camps??? And what does “developing” mean? …in the process of making…and it’s ok that he murdered and tortured innocents… I know, we let it slide in so many other places, we should have let it slide there…
Concerning war plans – we have war plans for almost every nation on earth – it’s called preparation. It’s no secret we have a war plan for Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Russia, you name it – we have a plan. Just because we have a plan doesn’t mean we will necessarily implement it….and I can hear the howls now…”just because Saddam was developing WMD doesn’t mean he was going to use it”…
Again, I’ve seen it, heard it, and lived it, so you can cite any videos or articles you want – I know the truth, and our national security – that means my wife and kids, and my neighbors’ wives and kids – depend on a balance of power in the Middle East. In twenty years when we’re freezing our butts off because of a cooling trend, the truth about WMD, Al Qaeda, and global warming may finally emerge…
No, the point was that this administration told us that he HAD them and that this was why we needed to invade. But the truth was that he DIDN’T have them therefore Gary’s statement about sending our soldiers into war based on false intelligence was correct.
“I’m not going to bother cutting and pasting your links”
Tuesday, 18 April, 2000, 13:19 GMT 14:19 UK
Iraqi rights abuses condemned
The Iraqi people suffer “all-pervasive oppression”
The United Nations has strongly condemned Iraq for its “systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations” of human rights.
The UN Commission on Human Rights adopted a European Union-sponsored resolution criticising Baghdad’s “all-pervasive repression and oppression sustained by broad-based discrimination and widespread terror”.
Thirty-two of the 53 Commission members voted in favour of the motion, with the remainder – including China and Russia – abstaining.
The resolution also condemned Iraq’s widespread and arbitrary use of the death penalty and its suppression of freedom of expression.
“On Feb. 5, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell came before the United Nations Security Council and laid out the Bush administration’s case against Iraq. As a hushed chamber listened intently, Secretary Powell detailed a web of evidence against Saddam Hussein’s regime.”
Powell’s argument could be divided into two main tracks. The first centered on the premise that Iraq had to face the penalties for having flouted numerous Security Council resolutions. “Last Nov. 8, this council passed Resolution 1441 by a unanimous vote,” the secretary said. “The purpose of that resolution was to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction. Iraq had already been found guilty of material breach of its obligations, stretching back over 16 previous resolutions and 12 years.”
“Iraq has now placed itself in danger of the serious consequences called for in U.N. Resolution 1441. And this body places itself in danger of irrelevance if it allows Iraq to continue to defy its will without responding effectively and immediately.”
While the Security Council has passed a series of resolutions concerning Iraq over the past 12 years, only one explicitly authorized the use of force. Resolution 678, passed on Nov. 29, 1990, authorized member states to “use all necessary means to uphold and implement Resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area.”
April 16 2003.
Saddam was found to be violating oil for food programs by selling the food received in exchange for oil for cash. His country was starving so he could build anther mansion/palace.
This was a violation of peace treaties enacted after the first gulf war, it is also an act of war and justification for disbanding the Iraqi leadership.
Before the war, Syria was said to be receiving as much as 200,000 b/d of oil through the pipeline, paying as much as $1 billion/year to Iraq, making it the single largest source of revenue for Baghdad outside the UN’s oil-for-aid program.
But the US action put an end to that arrangement, ending Washington’s formerly benign policy towards Syria’s illicit imports of Iraqi oil.
Iraqi Firings: Since 2000, Iraqi forces have fired on U.S. and British pilots 1,600 times. In 2002, Iraqi forces fired on U.S. and British pilots406 times. Since September 18, just hours after Saddam promised to “allow the return of the United Nations inspectors without conditions” and expressed his desire “to remove any doubts that Iraq still possesses weapons of mass destruction,”
1. Elected Democrats like Reid and Pelosi have no loyalty to the Current Military Personal who are in harms way, or they would make sure they have funding no matter what.
2. President Clinton had little loyalty to the Military, or Iraqi forces firing on U.S. Pilots would not have continued into the 2000.
3. Iran attacking our Military Personal is not acceptable.
Revisiting these historical facts should drive home the point that Saddam was in violation of the terms under which we spared him after liberating Kuwait — with or without WMDS and with our without ties to Al Qaeda.
Clinton would have been well justified to invade Iraq at just about any time during his second term — problem is Clinton lacked the courage to do what really needed to be done (and instead attacked Yugoslavia.)
No-Fly Zones, the Iraqi Violations.
Operation Northern Watch enforces the no-fly zone north of the 36th parallel in Iraq and monitors Iraqi compliance with UN Security Council resolutions 678, 687, and 688. The United States and the United Kingdom provide about 45 aircraft and more than 1,400 personnel to support the operation.
Operation Southern Watch enforces the no-fly zone south of the 33rd parallel in Iraq and monitors compliance with United Nations Security Council Resolutions 687, 688, and 949. The United States and the United Kingdom provide about 150 aircraft and 6,000 forces to support the operation.
All of the above were acts of war and aggression against the U.S.
Not even mentioning the thousands og human rights violations taking place on a daily basis.
All were violations of peace treaties enacted after the first gulf war/Kuwait invasion.
George W. Bush never claimed to have been to Iraq. Rather, both he and Tony Blair deferred to intelligence reports and, at the same time, complained that their sources were limited by the fact that Saddam would not allow inspections under the agreements that ended the Gulf War; nor would he respect numerous UN mandates to allow unrestricted monitoring.
Though rare, there are some in the world who allege that Bush knew the reports were wrong (in some mysterious fashion), but went to war under false pretenses anyway. This would certainly qualify as a lie, but it also defies common sense and probably speaks to the ignorance, delusion, or dishonesty of the person making such an assertion.
Saddam was also paying Palestinian suicide bombers families $25,000 ea. to go into Afghanistan and blow up Americans, this was most definitely an act of war. ———————————————–
Saddam Pays 25K for Palestinian Bombers
Tuesday, March 26, 2002
By Ken Layne
Saddam Hussein is paying $25,000 to the relatives of Palestinian suicide bombers — a $15,000 raise much welcomed by the bombers’ families. In Tulkarm, one of the poorest towns on the West Bank, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council handed out the checks from Saddam. The payments have been made for at least two years, but the amount has suddenly jumped up by $15,000 — a bonus for the families of martyrs, to reward those taking part in the escalating war against Israel. Paul McGeough, reporting from the West Bank, was the only foreign correspondent in the hall Monday night when a Palestinian official handed out the checks. McGeough’s story in today’s Sydney Morning Herald describes a very hellish twist on the Academy Awards: The men at the top table then opened Saddam’s checkbook and, as the names of 47 martyrs were called, family representatives went up to sign for checks written in U.S. dollars. (Story continues , click on the link )Below are some more obtrusive notes that never seem to hit the mainstream medis. Written in Dec 2006. Does anyone recall seeing this on your evening news ? But I’m sure you got a good shot of all the mourning mothers screaming over the body of their son that was killed by some insurgent, and I’ll bet you’ve seen your share of crying babies on Baghdad sidewalks.
“You are going to split hairs about whether they were Al Qaeda terrorist camps or simply generic terrorist camps??? ”
It’s not hair splitting. Mickey is claiming that Gary, the protester, expressed beliefs that have been proven wrong “time and time again”. One of Gary’s two statements was that our soldiers had been sent to Iraq based on false intelligence. One peice of this false intelligence that was used to garner support for war was that Saddam/Iraq and Al Qaeda has an operational relationship and the US senate investigation revealed plainly that there was no evidence of such a relationship. Therefore Gary’s statement was correct and Mickey is WRONG.
it is quite appropriate that the title of Eric’s blog is “Ideological Bigotry”. Almost every Congressperson, Senator, and/or politician in the United States is quoted somewhere as saying Saddam had WMD, and we must do something to stop him from using them. What do you call VBIEDs, IEDs, and Chemicals that kill or maim 50 -60 people, Weapons of Minor Distraction? I’m not going to change your mind because you enjoy being stuck on your ideological bigotry. I am stuck on mine, as well, but if there are those on the fence who can read this and make a fair assessment – based on what I’ve experienced and not read about, then it is worth responding to your media-driven hate America first talking points.
I think it was you who turned the subject to war when you mentioned something about “disproved”…
“And what does “developing” mean? …in the process of making…and it’s ok that he murdered and tortured innocents… I know, we let it slide in so many other places, we should have let it slide there”
No, the problem here is manifold:
1) Other countries now NEED wmds in order to protect themselves from the new imperial pre-emptive strike policies of the US and our desire to control world oil supplies. So, ethically, they should be allowed to have them as long as the US is acting like a bunch of a-holes.
2) The US tortures and murders people also. In fact innocent people are dieing in Iraq at many times the rate they were dying under Saddam. So if human suffering is really your concern then you need to be in support of immediate and complete withdrawal from Iraq, bringing Saddam back from the grave and reinstating him as dictator.
3) We financed the murder and torture of Iraqis while Saddam was in power so you’ll forgive me for not trusting the US to be the ones to go in and try to stop Iraqis for being murdered and tortured.
“I think it was you who turned the subject to war when you mentioned something about “disproved”…”
From Mickey, April 26, 12:28am
“There a millions of ways to get heard in this country. I have a feeling this poor slob just wanted to get some attention. He obviously failed miserably to get his message out. And the message was an incredibly old one not worth repeating since every radical moonbat has been saying it for years now And it has been disproven time and time again.”
Then I asked him what exactly had been disproved and he said “his message” about the war in Iraq. Just scroll on up and check it out. Now he’s running away from the subject.
“1) Other countries now NEED wmds in order to protect themselves from the new imperial pre-emptive strike policies of the US and our desire to control world oil supplies. So, ethically, they should be allowed to have them as long as the US is acting like a bunch of a-holes. ”
Iraq was not allowed by international law to posess these weapons.
Read my post per Gen. Powell
And just for your information BG it is the radical muslims that would love to not only control the world oil supply, they will destroy it if they have to just so America does not get any.
Bin Laden has already stated that he is trying to destabalize and crush america finacially
“2) The US tortures and murders people also. In fact innocent people are dieing in Iraq at many times the rate they were dying under Saddam. So if human suffering is really your concern then you need to be in support of immediate and complete withdrawal from Iraq, bringing Saddam back from the grave and reinstating him as dictator.”
Most of the innocent were killed by insurgents and the rest choose to fight.
Saddam would not function very well in his present state. So I believe now that you Mr. Big head are truly out of your mind
3) We financed the murder and torture of Iraqis while Saddam was in power so you’ll forgive me for not trusting the US to be the ones to go in and try to stop Iraqis for being murdered and tortured.
If you distrust America so much you should get the F*** out
Look buster BG !
I have been more than patient with your (redacted) ass.
But it was most certainly you who tried to transfer this conversation to the war ! NOT ME !
I have told you once or twice to get back on topic and you still dribble about the war.
I will not tolerate a liar.
This blog I feel is a few notchs above your type of decorum.
I suggest you go somewhere like the KOS where your kind of behavior is accepted.
To engage in the exchange of facts and ideas and beliefs is what we do in debates.
But dont make things up.
“If you distrust America so much you should get the F*** out”
That’s a strange philosophy. I was taught in our american public education system that if you didn’t like what the government was doing that you were supposed to do whatever you could to change it. And according to our consitution (the highest law in our land) you actually have the legal right (although not necessarily the means) to OVERTHOW the federal government. Are you from China or something? Things work a little differently over here – or at least they are supposed to.
I’m not going to plat childish semantic games BG.
MY mentioning the ididots statement about iraq was not intended to bring this into an Iraq war debate and tyou know it .
Do we have to go study Sigmund Freud now because I think hes insane ?
Will we tear apart the constitution so as to justify this idiot.
What other tributaries would you like to explore ?
Wow! Admittedly, I had some misgivings when I implied that you are part of the Hate America first crowd. Thanks for relieving my angst. I guess oil prices keep going up because we control so much of it now… I’m not sure what your agenda is other than to subvert the integrity of the US government, and I am rather amused that you would even consider making some of your arguments with someone who has spent his past seven years directly or indirectly planning, organizing, and fighting Islamo-fascism…
“MY mentioning the ididots statement about iraq was not intended to bring this into an Iraq war debate and tyou know it .”
You made a false statement about what Gary yelled at the Bushes. I corrected you. That’s all. If you want to keep stubbornly disagreeing with me on it without providing any logic or anything to back up what you are saying about this then go ahead but that obliges me to come right back at you, post exactly what Gary said again for everyone here to see, and then carefully explain, AGAIN, why what he said has not been “disproven time and time again” but is in fact widely accepted knowledge throughout the US including the federal government itself.
“Thanks for relieving my angst. I guess oil prices keep going up because we control so much of it now”
Yes, actually, that’s exactly right. That was part of the agenda of invading the middle east – to control oil prices….but to make and keep them HIGH, not low. And to try to prevent oil rich nations from moving their oil trade off of the US dollar. There’s some excellent descriptions of this that should be required reading/viewing:
Also see Lindsey Williams, a whislteblower who sat in on board meetings with top oil industry, imf and world bank execs who explains what’s being done with oil. $200 a barrel in a year or two and gas up to at least $7-$8 per gallon.
bghead, You are absolutely correct that you not only have a right, but also an obligation to overthrow a government that is corrupt. Unfortunately, our current administration is under attack by Islamo-fascists who are using the media to poison people’s heads with crap, thereby subverting our government. I made a vow to protect the citizens of the US against all enemies – foreign and domestic – and our biggest enemy in the US today is a combination of media and the population they corrupt with half-truths and skewed information. Part of my protecting the citizens is through Information Operations – the same campaign we are now using in Iraq – I sleep well at night because “the truth will set you free”, and I am living in truth.
“I am rather amused that you would even consider making some of your arguments with someone who has spent his past seven years directly or indirectly planning, organizing, and fighting Islamo-fascism”
You were compartmentalized. You know whatever your superiors WANT or NEED you to know and they know whatever THEIR superiors want and need THEM to know, and so on. The federal government, particularly the military and intelligence agencies, are not horizontal organizations. There are also people with government/military credentials that would make you look like a piker that flatly disagree with many of the things you’ve said in here.
You can find SOME of them here: patriotsquestion911.com
I obviously don’t agree with your argument, but I’ll check out the link and make another assessment. Taking a simplistic approach, if oil prices keep going up it may serve as a forcing function to develop electrically powered vehicles and wean ourselves from it. One of my ancestors (great, greta, great? grandfather) and his brother bought some property near the water in New York in the mid 1700s and were mining salt… they ended up losing everything because oil kept fouling up their salt… “that nasty black ooze was everywhere”… perspective…
“Unfortunately, our current administration is under attack by Islamo-fascists”
To the extent that this is true, it’s appears to be the result of this administration’s actions and policies, so I’m all for this administration being attacked by whomever it is causing undue harm. Let’s stop CREATING people that allegedly want to kill us first then see who is still left standing that wants to kill us and then come talk to me about SUPPORTING this administration.
“who are using the media to poison people’s heads with crap”
Islamofacists control NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX, Cspan, Wall Street Journal, etc? Got any links to back that up with? Was this part of your clearance debriefing or something?
“thereby subverting our government.”
So…..islamofacists (which we funded….and STILL fund by the way) are conrolling our government……and your job………your job is to get it back from them?
“I made a vow to protect the citizens of the US against all enemies – foreign and domestic”- and our biggest enemy in the US today is a combination of media and the population they corrupt with half-truths and skewed information. Part of my protecting the citizens is through Information Operations”
That sounds interesting. Does that have anything to do with the Pentagon’s Office of Strategic Influence (OSI) which stated publicly that it would henceforth be intentionaly disseminating false news stories to media outlets throughout the world?
“That sounds interesting. Does that have anything to do with the Pentagon’s Office of Strategic Influence (OSI) which stated publicly that it would henceforth be intentionaly disseminating false news stories to media outlets throughout the world?’
Sounds good to me.
Its called propoganda dude. Ya know, did the word “strategic” give you a hint ?
Unlike the movies, books, and newspaper depictions, I am not a myopic minion mushroom who thrives on the crap people feed me in the dark – “compartmentalized”. I am a US citizen first and a Soldier second…and other priorities before those two…there is no doubt in my mind that many people could make me look stupid, ignorant, or ill-informed. Regardless, I know what I’ve seen, and I would much rather spend another year away from my family today than risk losing my freedom at a later date.
I read the link. Interesting info but really irrelevant to the issue. I haven’t bought into the Conspiracy Theory yet…
“He plainly was antagonizing SS and repeatedly asked for access to a secure area.”
Just standing on a public sidewalk is now considered “antagonism”? Asking an officer if you can go somewhere is antagonism? You wouldn’t happen to be biased at all would you?
“Sounds good to me. Its called propoganda dude.”
I sure it DOES sound good to you since you are apparently having a lifelong morality deficit. But Eagle is claiming that the military is trying to win our country back from islamofacists by disseminating the “truth” and that he his assisting in this process and is himself “LIVING in the truth”. That doesn’t seem to jive to well with well known US military endeavors and departments like the OSI. Care to reconcile this for me since Eagle seems to have gone off somewhere to “free” us?
Uhm……..YOU did. That’s what started this whole thing, remember?
“But the fact is that there was still much more evidence that was concrete in justifying the invasion.”
“And a quick study of Al Queda transcripts and Bin Ladens letter to America disproves this.”
“I will bet eagle has a little better access to inteligence than you do BG. Puhleeze.”
Does he have more access to intelligence then these guys:
General Wesley Clark
Major General Albert Stubblebine
Col. Ronald D. Ray
Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force
Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force
Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer
Capt. Scott J. Phillpott
Major Erik Kleinsmith, U.S. Army – Former Chief of Intelligence
Col. David Hunt, MA, U.S. Army (ret) – Expert in Special Operations, Counter Terrorism and Intelligence Operations
Major John M. Newman, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Executive Assistant to the Director of the National Security Agency
Major Scott Ritter, Former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991 – 1998.
“Just standing on a public sidewalk is now considered “antagonism”? Asking an officer if you can go somewhere is antagonism? You wouldn’t happen to be biased at all would you?”
Look bro. You have to start being a little more honest here.
You and I have both watched the video.
He repeatedly tried to weasel his way past the agent, he gave him a hard time when the agent asked him for ID instead of showing it , he was bugging the crap out of the agent who repeatedly asked him to leave and told him why he wasnt allowed access.
He was not “JUST” standing on the sidewalk .
He just of said I’m sorry and walked away. The agent let him know that he was being a pest by offering enforcement if he didnt comply. The agent was kind enough not to follow through on the threats. Athough the agent had every right to have this guy hauled off after asking the first time to leave him alone.
He is protecting the first lady. his job was not to explain the constitution to this idiot.
Although he was kind enough to give him the web addresses to go look up the laws he was enforcing.
“I sure it DOES sound good to you since you are apparently having a lifelong morality deficit. But Eagle is claiming that the military is trying to win our country back from islamofacists by disseminating the “truth” and that he his assisting in this process and is himself “LIVING in the truth”. That doesn’t seem to jive to well with well known US military endeavors and departments like the OSI. Care to reconcile this for me since Eagle seems to have gone off somewhere to “free” us?”
Yea, Eagle probably does have better things to do than try to make his country look like a complete farce.
Morality defacit ?
Yea, you’re right. I’ve spent entirely too much time on you.
God forbid we tell the enemy exactly what we are doing.
I guess we could leave that up the lib mainstream media
What I found most interesting about this thread was how that “idiological bigots” beliefs corresponded with the beliefs (and high level security clearance KNOWLEDGE) of senior military, intelligence, and law enforcement officials.
bghead – I read the oil piece – I thought that’s what you wanted me to look at. I am not MI and did not intend to misrepresent my credentials. However, yes, I have more access to intel than some of the people you mention – but rather than parse words, the reason is because I’m still in, and they aren’t, so they don’t have the same access anymore! Having said that, my views are my own, not representative of the military…but that’s why I don’t share name or other information. My specialty is strategic plans and operations, so although I am not an expert in military intelligence, I must know whatever my boss, and his boss want me to know in order to plan accordingly. I recently left that arena to take over a Military Transition Team – to assist the iraqis to assist themselves. That’s our stated goal now.
I know a couple people on that list, and I have no regard for them. Likewise, they have no regard for me. My personal opinion is that they use the term “patriots” loosely. No, you don’t have to be in the military or agree with our government’s policies to be a patriot, but I do not share their views.
” Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs. ”
If you read the whole letter it becomes even more evident he wants to destroy our economy.
You’ll probably say hes trying to make peace with us
“I never disputed the intelligence, now you are making things up.”
“And the message was an incredibly old one not worth repeating since every radical moonbat has been saying it for years now And it has been disproven time and time again.” – Mickey
Looks like a dispute to me, Mickey.
“Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.”
You don’t agree with that? Sounds like someone just trying to defend themselves to me. People don’t have a right to defend themselves?
And how do we know where this letter came from since the Pentagon has announced that they will henceforth be distributing false news to us?
The people on that site discuss 9/11. I was discussing the misinformation the media has used leading up to the war and following the war – the same type of misinformation as”Mass murdering people in order to “assist” them.” How could you even think that? I understand passion, but let’s use a spot of logic. Again, you can try to discredit me by making fun of what you perceive as my lack of experience in military intel, but that is again a case of false logic – and I mentioned in this post once before, many of the Arabs use the same logic you use – how they feel about something, regardless of the facts or five senses – is what becomes truth. So I can make a huge leap (ok, so now I’m jumping to conclusions) that it wouldn’t bother you to have our government taken over because their views are similar to yours.
I already explained this one.
Looks like a dispute to me, Mickey. ”
There is no dispute that the 911 terrorist arrived here Years before Bush was elected.
“You don’t agree with that? Sounds like someone just trying to defend themselves to me. People don’t have a right to defend themselves?”
It has absolutley nothing to do with agreement.
It just proved my point that he said he wants to destroy our economy
You asked where, I showed you.
You bitch about the US killing innocents in Iraq and yet you condone OBL.
I had you figured out in the beggining when you claimed I was disrubing your peace.
You came to a blog to debate, didnt like what you heard and then pitched a bitch and said I was disturbing your peace.
Just like the moron that disturbed the peace of everyone at the book reading you think life is all about you.
You come here and go Waaa ! you’re disturbing my peace.
If you found it so disturbing then you should of just left.
Hust like the way you feel about your country.
Hopefully you can find a country to live in where everyone is allowed to run around and scream at people anywhere, anytime they want.
Sounds like your kind of place. Complete and total anarchy
The jerk at the center of this debate and all the disruptive jerks before him ( code pink etc…) have all found out the hard way what their rights are and what the law is.
And yet, by virtue of insanity keep going back and do the same thing over and over and keep getting the same results over and over.
And they wonder why they are called the looney left.
Because the US has a rich history of mass murdering people, financing mass murder and mass murderers, and is notoriously greedy, arrogant, and myopic and ego-centric. This country is like the perfect storm for creating hell on earth for other people.
“The people on that site discuss 9/11. I was discussing the misinformation the media has used leading up to the war and following the war”
They discuss ALOT of things. You’ve identified ONE of them. They also discuss government involvement in 9/11, government complicity in 9/11, goverment coverups regarding 9/11, and goverment deception regarding 9/11 to get us into war.
“It just proved my point that he said he wants to destroy our economy”
According to that letter “they” want to hurt us because WE are hurting THEM. If I were punching you in the face because you were punching me in the face shouldn’t your first course of action be to stop punching me in the face? Instead you would point at me trying to punch you in the face and yell “Look everyone, he wants to hurt me. Let me invade his house, kill his family, break and steal his posessions and declare victory over evil!”
I did not complain about your presence, you complained about mine.
Earth to BG !!!!
I was here first and had already engaged with Mr McJones previous to your arrival.
But of course that logic in your case doesnt apply to Laura Bush and those that assembled peacfully at a place they had paid for and reserved in advance.
Why dont you go to a philharmonic concert one night and stand up in the middle of the performanced and start screaming about Bush. I’m sure someone will explain you rights to you promptly since you need to know so badly what they are.
Besides that, it was you choose to respond to me, as I choose to respond to you.
But I did not go wailing about my peace being disturbed by you as an example to make my point.
Our nation was founded by a bunch of people who invaded others’ lands, depended on the natives to feed and clothe them, then eventually butchered them and used biological warfare against them. Besides the Indians, our ancestors beat up the Mexicans, Spanish, French, and English and we became a country of freedom. We have had our share of problems, but as I discussed in another thread, we are free to have this discussion because of what our ancestors did a few hundred years ago, what they have done in the past hundred years, and what we are doing today. I have a full stomach, my family is safe at home, and you are free to say just about anything you want to just about anyone and not fear reprisals. The guy on the video obviously crossed the line. He was warned, and again warned, and he kept pursuing behavior not consistent with the scenario. Likewise, Saddam was warned, and again warned, and kept pursuing behavior inconsistent with the US Resolutions and Presidential Sanctions. If the man were allowed to confront the Bushes, there would have been a serious breach of security, and there’s no telling what he would have done – maybe nothing, maybe murder. We won’t know because the authorities did what they were supposed to do. If Saddam were allowed to continue his WMD development and funding terrorist cells, there’s no tell what he would have done…maybe nothing, maybe mass murder. We won’t know because the Coalition forces did what they were supposed to do. Granted, some of the UN countries didn’t support the Coalition forces…can anyone say “oil for food”….
‘Dude, you told me to LEAVE this forum and LEAVE the country. You’ve got one hell of a bad memory. Wow.”
I forgot nothing.
The point is that you were the one whining about your rights in America so I said why dont you leave. I did not command you to do so.
‘You’re disrupting my peace right now. ”
” If you want peace go away.”
It was plainly a suggestion Mr. Head. I asked you. But of course I’n not surprised since you have already been disengenuous more than once.
Now, you.ve become boring and not really given an example yet of why anyone should give any extra consideration to your protestor friend.
“and not really given an example yet of why anyone should give any extra consideration to your protestor friend”
Right, other than the testimonies and dissent of dozens of high profile senior military, intelligence and law enforcement officials and congressmen and mupltiple mainstream network media sources (including Fox) that collaborate the beliefs of the protester and the We Are Change organization that he represents……I’ve offered nothing.
I reviewed the list of “high profile senior military…officials”. An adage in the media is consider the source. Some of the high ranking civilians retired from the army as Majors. That generally means they either didn’t have much motivation or smarts, they had at least one major negative incident, or they were plain unlucky. It’s usually the former two. The one MG is about a hundred years old, and I don’t consider Captains, Majors, and LTCs “high profile senior military officials”… yes, one can be a high profile LTC such as LTC (R) Oliver North, or a counterinsurgency expert such as LTC John Nagl, but just because officers who happen to hold bureaucratic positions with big titles and are disgruntled about their career or lack of career progression doesn’t make them believable or reliable. I invite those types of people to my home once a year – they are my noisemakers on New Years Eve
“Right, other than the testimonies and dissent of dozens of high profile senior military, intelligence and law enforcement officials and congressmen and mupltiple mainstream network media sources (including Fox) that collaborate the beliefs of the protester and the We Are Change organization that he represents……I’ve offered nothing.
You dont get it, obviously.
And its obvious you cant stay on topic or resist the temptation to change subjects.
High profile senior military, congressmen etc have nothing to with a small iritated mans delusion that his right to act like a fool superceeded the rights of the people who assembled peacefully for their own function.
Collaberating someones beliefs is about as influential in an arguement/debate as me saying the Pope believes in god. So what ?
I will collaberate his belief that he thinks he has the right to disrupt a peacefull assembly. It doesnt mean its right or legal.
He was hauled away for the simple reason that he broke the rules in place for the engagement.
You have not made a case at all as to why his rights superceed the rights of the assembley that came there to hear the reading of a childs book.
Nothing, but obfuscation and disengenuous claims and in my opnion, flat out lies.
If you want to try and convince sane peole that the SS agent was hassling this nut when it was the nut who approached and persisted in questioning the SS agent on video, then you are quite possibly on the same looney wave length as your protester friend.
And yes, you have offered no mitigation for this idiot that gives me any sympathy for him.
Unfortunatley Jersey, you’re in the same position as Mr. Head.
You may think its a load but earlier you had not shown me why this jerks imaginary rights were more important than everyone elses legitimate rights
Micky – Ahh! the old stick em and spin em torture routine…my third favorite behind waterboarding and electrical shock…and not nearly as productive as slaughtering thousands of innocent Iraqis with errant missiles…but I digress… it astounds me that he is accused of beating the girl in the wheel chair…and as wild as this discussion got today about other things, I’m still dumbfounded that he would/could do that… for the sake of decency and sanity, I hope he didn’t… otherwise, we apply stick em and spin em!
O.K. then Mr. McJones.
Since you understand everything so well why have you not answerd one question I have asked you in this matter at all ?
Quite frankly I dont think you understand the nature of other peoples rights that dont see things your way.
Westboro Church was removed to a certain distance from funeral procedings for a certain reason.
Screaming lunatic code pink moonbats are removed from congressional hearings for a reason.
The “dont taze me bro” moron was removed from a John Kerry question answer session for a reason.
Just recently another one was removed during General Petraus’s testimony to congress on Iraq.
Theres this idiot we are talking about now.
Please tell me. Why were they removed?
I think it is you who doesnt understand rights.
And notice I use the word “think” when refering to you.
But when you refer to me you emphatically say “I do not”
I am humbled to the fact that I actually do not know everything.
Whereas in your case you deem yourself to be some sort of judge rendering a decision that is definate on my behalf..
I do know enough about rights to know the difference between right and wrong when attending public or private functions.
And since this idiot was charged with criminal tresspass it hardly seems that charge would apply if he were on public property.
And if I ever do need any further education on my rights you can rest assured and bet a S**T load of money that I will retain professional counsel and not come asking you for help.
We will not know for a while if he did hit the girl for certain.
But one thing is for certain. This guy Talis doesnt even have the facilities to understand a peice of chewing gum. And yet in this video he rambles on about what the responsabilities and duties are of law enforcment and the secret service. And constitutional rights which seems unable to explain trhem being in his case.
Another curious thing in this video statement. He says twice that the father used his daughters wheelchair as a shield .
FROM WHAT ?
If this man as he claims weighs 500 lbs. then why would he need his daughters chair as a shield ? Especially since he supposedly able to easily beat up on Talis?
And he obviously is a ripe candidate cop magnet because he admits the cops had a dealing with him the night before, because he was trying to blame his injury on the girls dad when the cops knew the injury was from the night before.
And also, I see not a mark on this guys face and at that point it had only been less than 24 hours since the incident.
Now tell me. Whos making things up here ?
Micky, After fina;lly getting to view the video (I have a terrible wireless connection at Fort Riley), I am reminded that many people in “We are Change” or Moveon.org would fit nicely into an Islamic society… “Arabs consciously reverve the right to look at the world in a subjective way, particularly if a more objective assessment of a situation would bring to mind a too-painful truth.”…”If you select or rearrange facts and if you repeat these to yourself often enough, they eventually become reality”… this guy keeps babbling abouty his constitutional rights and has the ideological bigotry to ignore everyone else’s rights – which is what you and Eric have been slamming home from the beginning. Keep plugging – we have to be diligent in our efforts to save this republic…it takes patience, hard work and a unified effort to provide the type of infrastructure we have in this country, and as evidenced by events following disasters such as Katrina and floods I experienced as a National Guardsman many years ago – it costs as much to secure areas from our own citizens as it does for emergency relief – it only takes a nutcase or two a few minutes to destroy years of hard work…
How does worshipping the Bush administration (and the US government in general) as “God” feel? The least you could do for yourself is be an atheist. At least Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, etc. represent some sort of universal higher spiritual ideals. Get some REAL religion if you have to have some.
Be nice if someone would answer my questions.
I guess when they begin to say things like what was just said to Eagle it means that they are at a loss for anything productive or intelligent and cant really answer the question(s).
Lets try a little perspective here so my two friends may understand the crux of the issue here.
Eric invites people to an open forum here to discuss/argue/debate the issues.
This forum has its rules.
I’ll assume from experience that there is no hate speech allowed.
No vulgarities or profanity.
Eric draws the line when a personal attack has crossed that line.
And you must remain within some relevant context to the post he has written
I have violated every single one of Erics rules ( except for the hate speech) in the 1year plus that I have known him.
He has used his right and his authority to remove some statements I have made.
I have questioned his decision a couple times. And even once re-posted the offensive material.
I’m sure I pissed him off that day.
But I have never ever questioned his right to what is his and how he chooses to operate it.
This little weasel retard ( I think literally, he’s a quart low, so I almost sympathize that he’s not competant) thinks he can just come along and pee on anyones party because of some backwards perception of his free speech rights superceeding the others who had programed function and forum already in place.
Will you please show me the law that entitles him to do what he did.
(for the last time)
You see Bg I did not do that as I pointed out before, but you choose to ignore that.
You are once again being disengenuous which is just a nice way of saying you’re full of sh**
It was you who precisley asked to go there, I simply stated a belief.
“Hold on there a minute, what exactly is it that you are saying has been disproven time and time again? ”
And also, read up above .
I had to ask you at least three times to get back on topic but since you cant or wont answer my question after I have made attempts to answer all yours I can only assume that you are drowing here. And you seem to think you can float on your floaters. ( Bart Simpson knows what those are)
Which is why you have obfuscated to about 6 or seven subjects so far.
What you should of done was actually adress the question I have asked so many times now, its actually funny, on your behalf.
“Hold on there a minute, what exactly is it that you are saying has been disproven time and time again? ”
Right, I was asking for clarification on what you were referring to here and you said you were referring to “his beliefs” about 9/11. So, YOU are the one that brought up 9/11. Clearly. Stop lying to everyone here.
bghead, You continuously validate then revalidate both Micky and my points with your personal attacks, snide comments, and manipulative language…and employing emotion rather than logic. Jesus isdoing fine by the way – He IS the Truth, to me, and I only wish I had the wherewithal to better follow in His footsteps. I will now give you ammunition to condemn me as a hawk… on Memorial Day, 1970, I was at the lake with friends. A fellow playing frisbee had a flag sewn on the crack of his pants’ butt. I approached him and said I felt he was being disrespectful. He told me to sit down and shut up. My brother died a couple years earlier defending that flag. If he had said, “It’s a free country” or “I hear ya, man, but it’s my right to wear it”, I may have sat down and shut up, because it IS a free country. Instead, I knocked him out – the first time I ever hit anyone outside the ring – and the feeling of my fist connecting to his jaw gave me the electric jolt of purity, as when one hits a rope down the left field line…ah, the memory is one of the sweetest I will ever have…a tingle of fulfillment… I would do it again, and if I had been with Lovetro, I would likely have dropped this guy, too, because he is threatening my family’s security. What if it had been MY wife and daughter he was stalking?. Might may not make right, but passive-aggressive behavior such as the Talisman projected – the selective ideological bigotry of wanting everything HIS way, HIS constitutional rights, while ignoring everyone else’s – deserves swift and potent action. Without it, we subject ourselves to the idiotic babblings and destructive behavior of Islamo-fascists and their emotional brethren – people like you.
Jersey, BGH: You’re a special kind of person, aren’t you?
Micky: Some people are incapable of learning. While I’m proud of you for fighting the good fight, I’d like to see your time spent arguing with people who are willing to at least consider your points. It seems you’ve won this argument several times over. It isn’t your fault if your opponents are too ignorant to realize they’ve lost.
You punch some stranger out for wearing a stitched flag in the wrong place and
you’re railing on me for employing emotion rather than logic to make my point? And then you run and hide behind Jesus.
These are the actions of a self -deluded jerk and a coward, not someone who should be working in our government and especially not someone who should be working at high levels within the military to “liberate” people with the “truth”. Some advice:
1) Get some help with your anger management problem.
2) Expose yourself to some information outside of what your elitist, demonic neocon handlers are spoon feeding you.
3) Grow a pair and stop siding with evil because you think it’s going to make YOU safe and provide YOU with privelege at the expense of the rest of the world.
4) Find the guy you assaulted and apologize to him and buy him a drink and let him tell you about his dead brother.
5) Stop using christianity as an excuse or a cloak to conduct yourself in any fashion you see fit. Christ was a leftist, anti-establishment dissenter anyway so it’s an embarassing mismatch.
“Right, I was asking for clarification on what you were referring to here and you said you were referring to “his beliefs” about 9/11. So, YOU are the one that brought up 9/11. Clearly. Stop lying to everyone here.”
If you have any conscience left you will realize that i went way out of my way to answer your question.
“Hold on there a minute, what exactly is it that you are saying has been disproven time and time again? ”
While you still have not answerd any of mine.
Now please answer the question(s) I have asked.
And keep your hands off my ass, unless this is a gay rights issue
1970 was a while ago – anger management may be a few years late…but it wasn’t anger – it was a precision sttrike designed to serve a purpose – protect the integrity of the US. The American Flag may mean nothing to you – but it symbolizes what is right in this country and in this world.
Everything you say about me may be true – and I love who I am, what I do, and how I do it. I love that we have a republic, and I love the fact that our country has compassion for other countries, and I especially love the fact that although you call me a delusion coward, you are the one babbling about thousands of innocents murdered, Conspiracy Theories generated by disgruntled underachievers, and using personal attacks with no fear of accountability, and I’m the one willing to act on my beliefs and not just talk about them -
“The Bushes signed books at the heavily guarded store for nearly three hours until each person had a chance to move through the line. An estimated 700 people lined up to snap a quick photo and have their books signed, according to Mimi Sandoval, a Borders district marketing manager.
Laura Bush spoke briefly to the media before the event and explained that proceeds from the book will benefit Teach for America, a program that places teachers in urban and rural public schools.”
Forums are used by many people. Nonetheless, some are privately owned and operated forums, such as the Book signing at Borders. You are extended a revocable privilege of participation. Do not assume that Garys freedom of speech, as protected under the law, allows him to barge into anyone’s private forum and say whatever he wants in any manner he deems appropriate. He is that forums guest and he agrees to abide by that forums rules and judgment when he enters the private property.
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution only provides this shmuck with a limited guarantee:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
Borders being a privately operated and owned, does not receive funding from the United States government and does not act in any capacity as a law-making body or arm of the Congress. Borders therefore, is under no obligation to allow anyone to say whatever they wish in their forums. Garys actions, if they are deemed abusive, may be prosecuted under all kinds of laws, including but not limited to invasion of privacy and tresspassing, at their discretion.
Each person who visited Borders that day was excersising their individual right to hear Mrs. Bush and Jenna and to have their books signed
And at no time do his rights superceed trump the rights of the people who were entitled to participate un molested by his out bursts
The concept of possession developed from a legal system whose principal concern was to avoid civil disorder. The general principle is that a person in possession of land or goods is entitled to take action against anyone interfering with the possession ( that would be moonbat hecklers) unless the person interfering is able to demonstrate a superior right to do so.( That would be the police or the SS) And in this case Gary has not and will not be able to prove a “superior right” to do so
“1970 was a while ago – anger management may be a few years late…but it wasn’t anger – it was a precision sttrike designed to serve a purpose – protect the integrity of the US.”
Assaulting strangers on the street because you don’t like their attire is protecting the integrity of the US? You should have been jailed for assault and forced to pay large punitive damages to your victim – THAT’S what would protect the integrity of the US (upholding our LAWS). You sound like you’d be much more comfortable as a thought patrol pig in communist China.
“The American Flag may mean nothing to you”
And the US Constitution, which you are sworn to protect, means nothing to you apparently. I fail to see the value in a peice of cloth when it represents a country with a constitution that’s used as toilet paper.
“but it symbolizes what is right in this country and in this world.”
Actually, it symbolizes THE COUNTRY and THE COUNTRY has things right AND wrong with it. I can give you civics and history lessons all day if you want to keep going. An excellent example of what is wrong with it would be bigoted nazi zealots running around assaulting innocent people because he has a idolatrous boner for the flag but isn’t literate enough to appreciate the US constitution.
“p.s. It was MY dead brother – not his. I should have put the “sit down and shut up” comment in quotation marks”
If I were your brother I’d be rolling in my grave over the thought of you running around acting like a nazi idiot punching strangers in the face because they have a flag stitched into their jeans. I’m actually feeling sorry for you now. That’s really pathetic. And you’re PROUD of this and got some kind of sick rush out of it?
Therein lies the beauty of being in the position I’m in – on the inside, where I can impose my will and foster thousands of like-minded militants who see passive-aggression as a cancer of weakness and an enemy of the state…and soon, I, too, will open a construction or supply business and use my contacts – former subordinates – to make huge money from over-priced contracts with the government . Life is grand….but a government contract is many grand more…
OK, my last comment was a little over the top – I almost forgot I have to be careful using tongue-in-cheek comments around righteous constitutionalists. And no, it wasn’t a sick rush – it was pure, utter joy. Remember the ‘pearls before swine” thing – you are wasting your pearls – and I’m done drawing ideological bigotry into the thread, which means it got too personal, and I’m simply wasting Eric’s space… you livened things up – thanks a bunch, and my very best to you and yours.
Well, I think we’ve all learned something important here the last couple days: It’s ok for jingoist thugs to punch innocent bystanders in the face because they don’t like they’re clothes but it’s not ok to ask Laura Bush a question. If this is all we walk away with then I think it was well worth it. Happy adventuring.
“bghead, I hope Eric leaves your final comment on this thread. Unbelievable.”
It’s not anymore offensive than what you posted before it. You’re threatened action could hurt hundreds of millions of people, my threatened action wouldn’t do anything but make a small patch of ground wet.
“Conspiracy Theories generated by disgruntled underachievers”
Robert David Steele (Vivas) – U.S. Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer for twenty years. Second-ranking civilian (GS-14) in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence from 1988 – 1992 and a member of the Adjunct Faculty of Marine Corps University. Also former clandestine services case officer with the CIA. 25-year U.S. military and intelligence career. Currently Founder and CEO of OSS.net and a proponent of Open Source Intelligence.
Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. 22-year Air Force career. Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University.
Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years).
Bogdan Dzakovic – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. 14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration. Team Leader of the FAA’s Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks. Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer.
Major Scott Ritter, U.S. Marine Corps – Former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991 – 1998
Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on the American Battle Monuments Commission (1990 – 1994), and on the 1992 Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces. Military Historian and Deputy Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center, Washington, D.C. 1990 – 1994.
Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS Aeronautical Science, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Retired U.S. Air Force command fighter pilot. Former instructor; U.S. Air Force Fighter Weapons School and NATO’s Tactical Leadership Program. As an Air Force weapons effects expert was responsible for wartime tasking of most appropriate aircraft/munition for target destruction to include steel and concrete superstructures. Former aeronautical structures flight test engineer with McDonnell Douglas, working on advanced DC-9 autopilot systems and DC-10 flight envelope expansion stress and flutter analysis. Tactical aircraft flown: General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber, McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle, General Dynamics / Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet, Boeing B-1 Bomber, MiG-29 (Russian fighter), and Su-22 (Russian fighter/bomber). 3,000+ fighter hours. Combat time over Iraq. 20-year Air Force career.
Joel M. Skousen – Former U.S. Marine Corps fighter pilot. Commercial pilot. Aircraft flown: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, Grumman F-9 Cougar, North American T-2C Buckeye, various civilian planes. Former Chairman of the Conservative National Committee in Washington DC and Executive Editor of Conservative Digest.
Col. George Nelson, MBA, U.S. Air Force (ret) – U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. Graduate, U.S. Air Force War College. 34-year Air Force career.
Congressman Curt Weldon – Former 10-term Congressman from Pennsylvania 1987 – 2006. Former Vice Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. Former Vice Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.
Again, selective sense of humor…”You’re threatened action could hurt hundreds of millions of people,”… you think I’m serious? Why do you think I gave you the ammunition? …to goad you into going down a road I knew you would travel…and when your logic was proven faulty, you got personal – it’s a standard defense mechanism. After your first couple entries, I recognized entertainment and helped manipulate you down the path your ilk always go – it’s easy. What I can’t figure out is how can anyone with such a great grasp of beer, bars, and cigarette smoke hate the US so much… you really nailed that article, and I thank you for the pleasure of being able to read it.
“There’s 135 posts here. I’m going to sit here and read all of this crap again just answer a question. If you want an answer just post the question here at the bottom.”
All you have to do is look at the posts that have my name on them. That narrows it downto abot 40 of em.
I have asked these questions repeatedly and you have bobbed and weaved, ducked and dodged and ran like Barney Fife facing Mike Tyson.
Yoiu dont want to answer these questions because you cant. And you know very well what they are and if you could answer them I’m sure you would attempted to do so the first time. As you have been able to reply to any other statements in efforts to change the subject.
You have read every post I have written.
You no reason or excuse ither than the fact that it is you holding your ass.
And quite frankly your childs play debating skills are what handed you your own ass, not me. I deserve very little credit for this achievmenent.
You have proven without a doubt that you do not have the balls, tenacity or ability to answer these questions.
Instead you have veered off to an number of other subjects that have nothing to do with Gary.
If your point is so strong and you truly believe you can prove it you will find the questions I have asked repeatedly and answer them
If you do not you have proven that you have NOTHING.
One of the sons was and most of the hijackers were Saudis. One would think that the LAST people you’d want to put in the air (or rush out of the country) on 9/11 were more Bin Ladens and Saudis, but instead, out of the hundreds of thousands of people who would normally be flying that day, they were the ONLY people allowed to fly.
If you don’t find that “weird” then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
Well , obviously you bought that bridge first, otherwise you wouldnt be trying to get rid of it.
Keep it, you own it.
Your own source contradicts you.
‘Once the flight ban was lifted, two jumbo jets transported the Saudis out of the country. The Boston Globe reported at the time that two flights bound for Saudi Arabia with members of the bin Laden clan on board left Logan on Sept. 18 and 19″
“Saudi Arabia supervised urgent evacuation of 24 members of Osama bin Laden’s extended family from United States in first days after terror attacks on New York and Washington, fearing that they might be subjected to violence…”
( not because they were being enabled so as to avoid prosecution)
“Grossi said he was told the clearance came from the White House after the prince’s family pulled a favor from former President Bush. Prince Sultan, the Saudi defense minister, was part of the coalition that fought the Persian Gulf War in 1991. ”
(Get it ? Coalition?)
“The Saudi Arabian Bin Laden Group is one of the biggest construction companies in the world, with clients in America that include General Electric.
The brothers who run the construction and property business in the US fled the country in the immediate aftermath of the September 11 attacks.”
Looks like Obama really screwed things up for his family, didnt he ?
His family lost billions as result of Obama.——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Now heres my point.
I purposely baited you with this remark, knowing you would bite in an attempt to not answer my questions.
April 27, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Hah ! I was watching the gary video and he says that the US flew the suspects out of the country right after the towers went down.
Ah bg – I see you are over here harrassing these good folks too. You must not have anything useful to do with your life than go around to blogs and spread your sweet disposition to the rest of us. Perhaps if you got a real job, you wouldn’t have so much time on your hands… Conservatives tend to have jobs they have to WORK at and contribute to society. We don’t have time to defned a jerk that hits a kid in a wheelchair and shouts obscenities at the First Lady and her daughter.