A Jewish Debate About 2008

May 27, 2008 at 9:03 am (POLITICS)

http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/05/a-jewish-debate-about-2008/

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20 Comments

  1. Jersey McJones said,

    “Detroit is run by liberals. It has been run into the ground.”

    Oh puh-lease! Detroit was run into the ground by Free Trade and the systematic dismantling of the Labor Movement. I worked a few years in the Auto Industry in my 20′s. I know of what I speak. I know Detroit. “Liberals” have nothing to do with the fall of Detroit.

    “New York City was dying until Rudy Giuliani took over for David Dinkins.”

    New York, like almost all major cities, had been suffering urban blight for years until the nineties. Then a wide variety of factors – from abortion to immigration to community policing – brought the crime down. And remember, Guiliani was no mainstream Republican in those days. And the modern Tammany Hall of Democrats in New York is hardly reflective of the national party.

    “Kathleen Blanco cried, Ray Nagin blamed white racism, and Haley Barbour rolled up his sleeves, and got the job done.”

    Haley Barbour sleazed out to the casinos to bail him out, and Lord knows he had an exponentially smaller mess than New Orleans had.

    “San Francisco is so far gone that more people live now in San Jose.”

    San Francisco is one of the most beautiful and successful cities in the world.

    “People are fleeing Massachusetts for New Hampshire, and escaping New York for Florida, Arizona and Nevada. These are red states.”

    That has nothing to do with why people retire and move to the South. And as we move down here, you can bet we’ll be less and less Red.

    JMJ

  2. micky2 said,

    JMJ;
    “San Francisco is one of the most beautiful and successful cities in the world.

    Its also the most expensive place in the country to live in.
    Asthetics and geographics, yea, its beautiful. But the people are a pain in the a$$.
    If being chock full of nuts is what you call success, O.K. then.

    JMJ;
    “Haley Barbour sleazed out to the casinos to bail him out, and Lord knows he had an exponentially smaller mess than New Orleans had. ”

    Still, he didnt go blaming everyone and thing and failing in the process.

    JMJ;
    “That has nothing to do with why people retire and move to the South. And as we move down here, you can bet we’ll be less and less Red.”

    Awww B.S. !
    You mean to try and tell anyone with half a brain that taxes are not higher in Mass. and N.Y. ?

  3. micky2 said,

    L.G.
    “Republicans stand for tort reform and medical liability reform. Lawsuits are the problem. OBGYNs have been driven out of Arkansas.”

    And Hawaii.

    AL: When Clinton was President, Israel talked to Jordan. With Bush, the Iraq war strengthened Iran, which threatens Israel.”

    Will someone please show me how this can be true ?
    I’ve been hearing this contradictory crap for a few weeks now.

    On one side of the left all you hear is how big a pussycat Iran is and not the threat they are made out to be.
    On the other side of the left they are saying we’ve turned Iran into this big behemoth.

  4. Jersey McJones said,

    Anyone who thinks tort reform will cure medical inflation is completely oblivious to the root causes of the problem: We are the only developed nation on the Earth dopey enough to have a purely private healthcare system.

    JMJ

  5. micky2 said,

    Just take a look at what drives up the cost.
    Its insurance rates and frivilous law suits.

    And then again, if you dont want a ‘purely” private systaem, what would a “unpure system look like/
    How much government intervention are calling for ?
    Some want complete socialized medicine and some agree that the governments role by implementing tort reform is enough.

    My wifes OBGYN wasnt even allowed in the hospital to deliver our son because of massive litigation

  6. Jersey McJones said,

    “Just take a look at what drives up the cost.
    Its insurance rates and frivilous law suits.”

    Well, you hear a lot of different opinions on this and see a lot of different stats. You also have to look at different states, and different types of insurance. The cost of malpractice insurance, for example, took a sudden jump in 2001-2002. It was not coincidental that the same insurance companies took massive losses on the stock market at the same time. Cerrtainly lawsuits didn’t suddenly double in volume or value at the same time. Tort “reform” (re: the usual eroding of our rights for the sake of corporate profits) will have no effect on costs, will further weaken our freedoms, and will increase the dangers involved in services. It’s a foolish notion at best (I won’t even say what I think of it at worst).

    And I don;t think you know what “socialized medicine” is or what universal healthcare proponents espouse. It’s just a single-payor pool. That’s all. You still have private doctors, you still have private contracted claims handling, you have all the choice you want, etc. I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    JMJ

  7. micky2 said,

    JMJ;
    “And I don;t think you know what “socialized medicine” is or what universal healthcare proponents espouse. It’s just a single-payor pool. That’s all. You still have private doctors, you still have private contracted claims handling, you have all the choice you want, etc. I have no idea what you’re talking about.’

    If we use Canada or Britain as an example, no thanks.
    Single payor pool ? Gimme a break.
    Thats exactly when the individual takes a back seat anfd the “payor” starts screwing things up.
    The same government that handles our taxes and wraps itself up in more red tape and beurocrocy is the same government you want handling your body ?These two candidates are going have to do alot better job of selling this idea rather than just telling us it will come out of our (additional) taxes and that then it will be all O.K. And everyone will be covered.
    You want to see rampant abuse of a system?
    Just go ahead and make it eligible for everyone who is a taxpayer.
    The rampant abuse of our welfare system should give any idiot and idea of what will happen when all of a sudden going to the doctor involves nothing but showing up.

    Ha! And you call cons “pie in the sky”?
    Why are Canadian and British cancer victims coming to the U.S for treatment?
    If that not enough to bring some serious questions into mind , I dont know what is.

  8. micky2 said,

    I failed to include the cost of all the “non tax payers” also.
    If they get rid of that problem I could begin to listen to them.

  9. Jersey McJones said,

    I don’t know any non-taxpayors. To whom are you referring?

    JMJ

  10. micky2 said,

    Wetbacks, illegal aliens, transients, fence jumpers and last but not least, fraud.

  11. Jersey McJones said,

    I’m pretty sure they all pay taxes too, Micky. I mean, you could theoretically suggest hermits or people on communes, but pretty much everyone, even little kids, pay taxes. Where ya’ been?

    JMJ

  12. micky2 said,

    Pretty sure?
    Where have I been ?
    No no no my friend. I know where you have been and all I can say politly is that its real close to you and its dark and smelly.
    Illegal aliens are responsable for government expenditures that should be used on AMERICANS”
    http://www.10news.com/news/9620142/detail.html
    Future costs for illegal immigrants in the United States will reach a half a trillion dollars, a Heritage Foundation researcher said Wednesday at congressional hearing in San Diego.
    The National Academy of Sciences estimated that each immigrant will result in a $100,000 net annual cost to taxpayers.
    Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., the committee’s chairman, said hospitals in the Southwestern United States are losing $190 million annually per year for uncompensated health care from illegal immigrants.

  13. micky2 said,

    Now.
    If the left will address this issued the saved revenues could pay for this wonderful medical plan they want to push on us with no additional taxation.
    Pretty cool huh?
    I should run for orofice

  14. parrothead said,

    Jersey, I grew up in the Bay Area and went to college in San Francisco and you hav eno idea what you are talking about. San Francisco is a beautiful city (although it is pretty much grey 12 months a year) but it has not been successful since the ’50s. People have been leaving in droves ever since. In the early ’80s they had a chance to turn it around but Diane Feinstein barely beat Quentin Kopp in successive elections. It was once the 2nd largest city in California, now it has been passed by San Diego and San Jose and Sacramento is not far behind. It is expensive, has high tax rates and lots of infrastructure problems. Most people have moved all over the rest of the bay area where they can afford to live and commute

  15. Gayle said,

    Good morning, Eric.

    After reading all of these comments I had to go back and check to see what your post was about. I guess I’m not awake yet.

    I’m in total agreement with your friend, and perhaps a few minds were changed during that debate, or at least a few people may think about things a little more before stepping into the voting booth. At least one can hope. Larry said that the Democratic party wasn’t the party of their fathers. Amen to that! I truly wish more people would understand that.

  16. Jersey McJones said,

    Micky, everyone pays taxes, including “illegal” aliens. Some people do not pay certain kinds of taxes. But in the end, we pretty much all pay taxes.

    Parrothead, you’re a free market capitalist, right? So, why don’t you tell me why San Francisco is so expensive?

    “Larry said that the Democratic party wasn’t the party of their fathers.”

    Yes, Gayle, and that’s why the GOP took the South. Good riddance.

    JMJ

  17. micky2 said,

    JMJ;
    “Micky, everyone pays taxes, including “illegal” aliens. Some people do not pay certain kinds of taxes. But in the end, we pretty much all pay taxes.’

    Dude !
    Who do you think you’re talking to ?
    Some ignorant elementary teenager with gum stuck to her braces ?

    The amount of under the table work paid to illegals is a huge problem.

    Please, do some research and get off the moonbat express of ideological crap.
    These are the facts bro !
    http://www.alipac.us/article1283.html

    By Keyonna Summers
    THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    Published June 6, 2006

    In 1999, the year studied by the District-based Urban Institute, foreign-born households accounted for 17.7 percent of all taxes paid by area residents — a figure nearly identical to their share of the total population in 2000, which was 17.4 percent.
    But the average illegal alien household and those with temporary protected status paid less than 2 percent of the region’s taxes, even though they made up more than 4 percent of households.

    Illegal aliens “pay fewer taxes because they have lower incomes and because their compliance rate [voluntarily filing of income taxes by themselves or by employers] is somewhat lower than our other immigrant groups,” said Michael Fix, vice president of the Migration Policy Institute. “And their incomes are lower in large part because many have low levels of education and limited English skills.”

    Randolph Capps, a senior research associate at the Urban Institute, estimates that about 55 percent of illegal aliens are paying into Social Security and Medicare by using fake Social Security numbers. The remaining 45 percent are not paying those taxes because their employers, who are not filing income taxes, are paying the illegals under the table.
    Steven A. Camarota, research director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a District-based group that favors tougher immigration policies, wrote a study in 2004 that found illegal aliens cost the federal government $26.3 billion in services in 2002 but paid only $16 billion in taxes.

    Illegal aliens that year created a net fiscal deficit of $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal alien household, he said. The costs reflected a burden on government services such as Medicaid, medical treatment for the uninsured, food-assistance programs, the federal prison and court systems, and federal aid to schools.

    “It’s not irrelevant, but it’s kind of half the equation, really,” said Mr. Camarota, who estimated that granting legal status to illegal aliens would allow unskilled workers who avoid taxes more access to public services, inflating the deficit to $29 billion.

  18. micky2 said,

    Why dont you answer a question jersey.
    If S.F. is so successful, as you say. Would the high rate of taxation and cost of living qualify as a success in your book ?

  19. Jersey McJones said,

    Micky, they (“illegals”) still pay taxes, both directly and indirectly, in the form of payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, tolls, fees, etc. You know: The same stuff you conservatives always complain about.

    As about San Fran: Obviously the tax system is working out pretty well there. Personally, I think it’s a bastion of the dangerously rich, but it seems to do pretty well for itself. It is truly “Liberal” in the original meaning of the word.

    And yes, that can be a dangerous thing, but you only have your own preferred system to thank for it.

    JMJ

  20. micky2 said,

    JMJ;
    “Micky, they (”illegals” still pay taxes, both directly and indirectly, in the form of payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, tolls, fees, etc. You know: The same stuff you conservatives always complain about.”

    Man, can you read at all?
    You keep dodging by talking about the few that do pay taxes when I’m pointing out the majority that dont and the cost of having them in this country compared to what little they contribute to the system they are draining.

    Its working out pretty well in S.F. ?
    When you just had Parrot , a former resident , tell you that everyone is leaving and the place is falling apart.
    My preferred system?
    Not at dude, what are you smoking ?
    Newsom is putting a “carbon tax” on the 2008 ballot.
    You know what that is dont you ? Its environmentalists gone wild is what it is. And Frsico cant understand why everyone is leaving ? Trash collection all the way up to any kind of emission is going to cost more now on top an already ridiculously expensive city. Its just another liberal attack on American business by means of a tax shift.
    http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/12/07/news/state/17_06_3012_6_07.txt

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