Thanks for a dignified campaign farewell to a dignified man. Of all the candidates, his policies/proposals were most in line with mine, and I especially appreciated the fact that, as you imply, he didn’t have an apparent personal agenda.
Its obvious that the Clinton household is not all about hearts and minds.
Its obvious to me that after all of Bills infidelity the only reason she kept him around is for exactly what you see today. Power, arrogance and greed have trumped dignity and self respect.
Are you kidding me ?
All though I belive a lot of other administartions are at fault for letting Al Queda get to the point is was at on 911. Bubba was more instrumental than any of them in failing to prevent 911.
And you expect him to defend us against them ?
Jersy is on record as saying most americans are stupid
Americans are not the most politically savvy people in world, but they know wehn things are going good for them and when things are going bad. When Americans look back at the Clinton years they see relative peace and prosperity. When they look at past seven years they see war and economic stagnancy.
This is why Clinton’s current popularity ratings are double those for George W Bush.
There are a number of dynamics behind “Clinton’s current popularity ratings are double those for George W Bush”… to include GWOT, yellow media, market scares, et al. There are also more than two sides to every story. It won’t be the first time I’ve voiced thanks to our forefathers who had foresight to establish a Republic versus a democracy. They understood demogoguery before Oprah capitalized on it…
But the real tickler is thinking Americans know when things are going good for them, and when they are going bad. The mushroom mentality of living in the dark and eating all the crap major media feeds shows up daily on television, movies, magazines, and newspapers… Not too many critical thinkers out there…lots of criticism but little in the way of recommended solutions.
Micky, I think Bill Clinton could win again this year were it not for term limits.
I understand, Al, that there are lots of reasons why people would think the way they do. And I understand that Clinton’s popularity is less a product of critical thinking and more just “good ol’ days” mentality. But there can be little doubt that Americans do not want another Bush-esque presidency, and you can forget about the GOP taking back the Hill any time soon. Americans may not be the smartest body politic, but they are not that stupid. One quick look at the GOP field of candidates will tell you that even the Republicans know this to be true.
I’m sorry, but its so hard to let this go. Only a month or two ago jersey said the American people were not all that smart.
Its amazing how things get changed to suit an arguement.
The bottom line is this. My question never got answerd.
Do you expect that if Bill were re elected he could defend us against the monster he created ?
Peace while he was in office ? Yea, because its very peaceful when you are head first in the sand and letting a festering brood of killers grow to what we see now.
I’m mostly upset about the immigration issues and perceived arrogance – As mentioned in previous posts, there were a number of factors leading to our prosecution of the GWOT, and our Information Operations campaign to the general public sucked – and still does. And, because it sucks, we are still having the same arguments today as the ones were were having two or three years ago. Saying “We go to war with the Army we have, not the one we want” (or words to that effect) is realistic, but it’s also political suicide and insults the public. The frustrating thing to me is the current adminstration’s knowing about WMD, certain leaders’ plans, and side deals among different factions of terrorists, and not sharing this information with the public. Most of it isn’t even classified. Regardless of what I think about the lack of Information Operations, I respect what our President has been trying to do with GWOT because my personal experience supports prosecuting this war. Unfortunately, he hasn’t been able to make people “feel good” about things, and I believe that’s more personality driven than lack of character. He seems to have a great heart but is not a good communicator. Bubba Bill, on the other hand, made people feel good about most things.
Micky, I never said Americans were all that smart. And I do not believe most Americans believe in any way, shape, or form that Bill Clinton “created” Al Qaeda and 9/11. The few Americans who know a little history know exactly who “created” that monster, and his name was Ronald Reagan.
Well, Al, one sure fire way to make people feel good is to not instill in them fear. We are way, way, way, way over-reacting to the threat of terrorism. We are not Israel or Columbia or Sri Lanka. And, from everything I’ve read, the administration intentionally and malicisiously lied about Iraqi WMD, links to Al Qaeda, and any significant threat to the United States and its interests.
Jersey, I’ve read this report and others like it. They are predicated on lies. We don’t need to discuss it – your mind is made up, and I base my decisions on what I have read, seen with my own eyes in Iraq, and been briefed by superiors. A little known fact is that AQI and the Taliban signed a pact against coalition forces in 2005. Granted, this was done after the war started, but the communication between the two factions had been ongoing. President Bush isn’t pushing fear; he stands for common sense. He is a constructive thinker and used several past incidences of terror to come to the conclusion that someone, namely Islamic terrorists, are trying to kill us. Congress believed him, because he was right. They still believe him, or they wouldn’t continue to fund the GWOT. And the reason we are having this discussion now is because of my aforementioned disappointment with the administration’s Information Operations – they didn’t dumb down the evidence for non-critical thinkers to put two and two together to make constructive, logical conclusions.
Strange how we want to blame Presidents Clinton, Bush, or Reagan for Islamo-terrorists… any history buff can cite hundreds and thousands of conflicts over the past centuries involving them… maybe the threat is a little more real today because the world is shrinking, and a funny thing happened on the way to the Twin Towers one day…and several recent failed plots have been relegated to the back pages…as have the successes in Iraq…
Its hard to have a productive debate when you are not honest.
You have routinley bashed Americas intelligence when its not seeing things your way.
And called the majority stupid.
Clintons administration was reluctant because they did not believe that they could make a rock solid criminal case against Osama. The Democratic leadership and Bill Clinton himself, vehemently deny this in spite of the evidence released in the 9/11 Commission Report.
Michael Scheuer, the CIA agent in charge of hunting bin Laden in Afghanistan states in a story by CBS News “that the CIA had more opportunities to capture or kill bin Laden that has been reported previously. He says there were 10 such chances between May 1998 and May 1999. It was not clear who decided not to take those chances.”
“In May of 1998, after months of planning, officials called off a CIA plan to have Afghan allies capture bin Laden and send him out of Afghanistan for trial. The plan was apparently scrapped because of worries about the chance of killing bystanders, and even bin Laden himself, as well as concerns over the strength of the legal evidence against bin Laden.” (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/10/terror/
Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger also refused to authorize several strikes against bin Laden according to documents released by the 9/11 Commission. A document dated December 4, 1999, the National Security Council’s counterterrorism coordinator, Richard Clarke, sent Mr. Berger a memo suggesting a strike in the last week of 1999 against Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan. Reports the commission: “In the margin next to Clarke’s suggestion to attack Al Qaeda facilities in the week before January 1, 2000, Berger wrote, ‘no.’ ” (NY Sun July 23, 2004)
So was it President Clinton who refused to authorize Tenet, Clarke and Berger to give the go ahead to nix bin Laden? Dick Morris, Clinton’s chief political strategist, said that there were at least three times that Clinton refused to give that authorization that he knows of. The military officer who carries the nuclear football (who also carries the presidential mobile phone), Lt. Col. Buzz Patterson, who wrote a book about this very subject titled Dereliction of Duty, said in interviews that “in December 1996 with bombers and fighters in the air, Berger called the President through me and the president, knowing what the call was about, refused to take Berger’s call. Berger was getting angry at me because I couldn’t get an answer out of the president.”
Patterson spoke of another time in 1998 “a cruise missile strike was planned against bin Laden and we had a two hour window. Berger was in the situation room, in the first hour after Berger called the president, Clinton refused to talk to him or return his call. In the second hour Clinton decided to debate the issue with Berger, Madeline Albright and Secretary Cohen.” “I saw this situation happen over and over and over again. The president didn’t like making decisions like that,” says Patterson.
According to former Democratic fund raiser Mansoor Ijaz, “from 1996 to 1998, I opened unofficial channels between Sudan and the Clinton administration. I met with officials in both countries, including Clinton, U.S. National Security Advisor Samuel R. “Sandy” Berger and Sudan’s president and intelligence chief. President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir offered the arrest and extradition of Bin Laden and detailed intelligence data about the global networks constructed by Egypt’s Islamic Jihad, Iran’s Hezbollah and the Palestinian Hamas. Among those in the networks were the two hijackers who piloted commercial airliners into the World Trade Center. The silence of the Clinton administration in responding to these offers was deafening. As an American Muslim and a political supporter of Clinton, I feel now, as I argued with Clinton and Berger then, that their counter-terrorism policies fueled the rise of Bin Laden from an ordinary man to a Hydra-like monster.” (LA Times December 5 2001)
Former FBI Director Louis Freeh said in his book, My FBI, and in multiple interviews, that after the Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, Clinton refused to ask Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah to allow the FBI to interrogate bombing suspects the Saudi’s had in custody. Freeh writes, “Bill Clinton raised the subject only to tell the crown prince that he understood the Saudis’ reluctance to cooperate and then he hit Abdullah up for a contribution to the Clinton Presidential Library.” Says Freeh, “That’s a fact that I am reporting.”
Like I said; “I believe a lot of other administartions are at fault for letting Al Queda get to the point is was at on 911. Bubba was more instrumental than any of them in failing to prevent 911.
Cheney himself warned of the quagmire of Iraq 15 years ago. What was so different about 2003? 9/11? Yeah, right.
And who the heck cares what happened 3 years ago? Everything since 2003 is colored by the war.
And it is a shame that we simplify the world, and terrorism, and pretty much everything else. We blame Clinton for this and Reagan for that. There’s some merit to this, of course, but when we refer to these figures we’re really referring to an administration, congress, the courts – a political period.
Afghanistan and 9/11 are Blow-Back, and you know it, Al.
Micky, stop fretting over 9/11 already. You’re freaking yourself out.
You still dont answer the question.
The point being you brought up Clinton and the good ole days of feeling good. Great, look where it got us sitting around with our head in the sand feeling good.
Ignorance is bliss.
Cheny warned about Iraq 15 years ago, but decided we had to. Thats the difference.
Jersey, stop fretting over Bush already. You’re freaking yourself out.
You still dont answer the question.
The point being you brought up Clinton and the good ole days of feeling good”
No, Micky, I was discussing with Al the rather insipid nature of popular politics – that the love of Clinton is more than a little misplaced. I was talking about how the body politic would look at the 90’s and prefer them to the 2000’s and connect Clinton to that period. That’s all I was saying.
Jersey, I’m not sure what “blow back” means – and I’m not sure it really matters. The beauty of living in a free country is that we can express views 180 from the other, go to work, and have at it again. Yes, I take a simplistic approach – and it may be why I enjoy the military – we have a law or regulation, someone violates it, we take action. And as mentioned in other posts, this is where the arguments begin… who established the law, was it a necessary law, would one more warning convince the person to obey the law… and on and on. So I really do understand your questioning the rationale. The difference is that, to me, order and discipline are basic tenets of a free society. Without order and discipline, we have chaos, which leads to anarchy and eventually a dictatorship. I understand your argument about making sure our leaders don’t overstep their bounds by fanning the flames of revenge…I also understand that is why we have representatives in Washington to douse of fuel the flames. Just as Congress has supported President Bush in GWOT, they supported President Clinton’s inactivity as well. For me, when threatened, I’d rather err on the side of kicking someone’s butt today than getting ambushed tomorrow. Some may consider that living in fear. I consider it preventive medicine.
Fred Thompson has reminded me of Maximus Decimus Meridius of “Gladiator” fame. When Marcus Aurelius wishes him to be Emperor of Rome, Maximus refuses. Marcus Aurelius then says, “But Maximus that is why it must be you!”
That reminds of Thompson saying that “he did not spend every moment of his life hungering to be President of the United States.”
Wait a minute, Al. how could you not know what “blow back” means? You, of all people? 9/11 was blow back from our involvement in the Soviet/Afghan war and our military presense in the Muslim holy land. Had we not engaged the Soviets in Afghanistan, and got our butts out of the area after the Gulf War, 9/11 may well have been averted. Blow back.
I never felt the least bit threatened by Saddam Hussein, and I never saw the great threat to the US. In fact, I don’t feel all that threatened by anything going on over there, from Iran, to terrorism, to whatever. If Pakistan, for example, falls to Islamists, India and Israel would wipe it off the map. And what exactly was Iraq going to do? They were under years of seige – and that after two devastating wars. I never understood where we perceived that threat level that warranted preemptive invasion and occupation, other than a convenient post-9/11 excuse to rape the taxpayors and consumers for the profit of the administrations well-known-to-be close friends in the Military Sector and Big Oil.
Micky, if you want proof, click the link above that I provided to Al.
As for my comments on Clinton, I’m afraid you’re just not grasping my points. Maybe Al can explain it to you, because Lord knows I just don’t seem to be relating.
Jersey, I think it’s a stretch to attribute rabid Muslims’ attacking the Twin Towers to our involvement in the Soviet/Afghan war… especially considering our aid is directly responsible for their success against the Russians.
It’s an even greater stretch to accuse the administration of going to war as an “…excuse to rape the taxpayors and consumers for the profit of the administrations well-known-to-be close friends in the Military Sector and Big Oil.” The above two arguments are so outrageous, they would be laughable but for the Stepford Wife multitudes who are desperate to blame anyone and anything for their own personal failures. “Yea, me and Dick are going to invade Iraq so my buddies at Halliburton can get richer, and we can get cheaper oil”. Darn those oil prices!…but at least the Halliburton bubbas can afford the higher prices.
It’s great that you don’t feel threatened by Saddam Hussein, Iran, or anything else going on over there. Our leaders and military must be doing their jobs correctly.
That link is not proof of anything other than the same old accusations that have been put to rest a long time ago. I read it. And its just the same ole same ole that you have been saying which myself and a lot of other people have dismantled quite a few times.
There is no proof that he intentionally lied. On the other hand there is massive proof that the intelligence was flawed. And almost all of congress and 21 other countries bought it an are all on record as saying the same things that Bush said leading up to the invasion.
Orchestrating that much intelligence with the cooperation of all our allies and congress would be as difficult as making 911 an inside job.
You call Bush an idiot because he has screwed up everything he touches. Yet he pulled this one off ?
Give me a break.
I get what you’re saying about Clinton. He would be no better a leader today than he was during his term. I would not want 2000-2008 to be a repeat of the Clinton years. What we saw in those 8 years is a large part of what contributed to 911.
The body politics of Clinton was the reason so many people had there heads in the sand. Looking at everything he ignored it was a horrible administration seeing the mess he left Bush.
Him and his cabinet are on record as I provided by the top CIA official in charge of pursuing Bin Laden as being derelict 10 times in that effort.
You link and article is opinionated ant pee journalism compared to my source.
Even CBS of all networks along with Michael Scheuer, the CIA agent in charge of hunting bin Laden broke this story. These sources are a hell of a lot more reputable and credible than some obscure website that says Bushs statements were false. Those websites are a dime a dozen, big deal. What all those cheesy little websites always forget to say, just like you is that the false statements were not intentional.
When are you and the rest of the moonbats going to give this one up and start realizing that Bush was just relaying info to the American public form his sources ? And when has anyone ever been able to prove he made the whole thing up ?
Al, if the the Soviets had been successful, then the Taliban would probably never have risen and the Mujihadeen in Afghanistan would all be dead now. How you can’t see the connection between our involvement in the Soviet/Afghan war and 9/11 is beyond me. And how you could apply “success” to that effort is completely beyond me.
As for the war, I don;t think Bush knew any better, but Cheney ceratinly did – he said so himself years ago. I firmly believe that Cheney knew it would be a quagmore and went in anyway – not only that, but went in light, as if begging for a protracted military engagment. Given the extent of contracting and the effect this has had on Big Oil, if firmly believe this war was initiated to raid the public coffers for the profit of MIC annd Big Oil.
“It’s great that you don’t feel threatened by Saddam Hussein, Iran, or anything else going on over there. Our leaders and military must be doing their jobs correctly.”
LOL! If our leaders stayed out of that part of the world, I feeel a lot safer, and better about being an American. I am deeply and profoundly ashamed of what my nation has been up to these days.
Micky, Bush is just a puppet. He’s never pulled anything off in his life. There’s always been someone behind him and his escapades.
As for Clinton not catching OBL, I don’t care. With or without him, 9/11 would have happened soon after Bush was elected. To in any way blame Cliton for 9/11 is about the cheapest excuse for the failures of our foreign policy ever conceived.
Jersey, Take a step back and read what you just wrote…”…raid the public coiffers…profit MIC and Big Oil… ” You actually believe some of our leaders would knowingly get involved in a protracted war, placing tens of thousands of Soldiers at risk, for the above reasons? Some of your arguments sound like the street preachers who have faith in an entity you mock… adamant, unwavering, unfounded… Mel Gibson did an outstanding job as an actor in “Conspiracy Theory”. It was a comedy/drama, not a documentary.
“As for Clinton not catching OBL, I don’t care. With or without him, 9/11 would have happened soon after Bush was elected.”
My point being that Clinton did very little if nothing to pervent it.
There is evidence to back the claim that he was derelict in his duties.
I can guarantee this by the proof I show coming from his own cabinet.
Once again, your claim is based only on opinion and speculation.
And if you read the comment , it makes it clear that Clintons failed foreign policy is what let Osama run free.
JMJ;”To in any way blame Cliton for 9/11 is about the cheapest excuse for the failures of our foreign policy ever conceived.”
Lets talk about concieving things, shall we ?
You concieve that we were attacked simply because Bush was in office . You said so yourself. By studying the history of radical islam and Osamas own words you were proven wrong.
If Clinton had done more there is greater possibilty that 911 would not of happened.
It is painfully true that he was not doing his job. He turned down the chance ten times.
He could of changed the events to come had he done what he was supposed to.
With all the data, the likelyhoods are not in his favor.
“Jersey, Take a step back and read what you just wrote…”…raid the public coiffers…profit MIC and Big Oil… ” You actually believe some of our leaders would knowingly get involved in a protracted war, placing tens of thousands of Soldiers at risk, for the above reasons?”
Micky, Clinton was little better than his predecessors when it comes to foreign policy. He was, on the other hand, ten times the statesman Bush II could ever be.
If you belive that we went to war to raid the public coiffers and profit off MIC and Big Oil anmd risk American lives then its no surprise you think Clinton is God.
“Micky, Clinton was little better than his predecessors when it comes to foreign policy. He was, on the other hand, ten times the statesman Bush II could ever be.”
Yea, hows that middle east peace process working for you now huh ?
Strange how shmucks that come in contact with Clinton get Noble peace prizes. Arafat, Gore…
These morons have been at each others throats for centuries now. I guess thats Bushs fault too right ?
Anyway, looks like you got nothing but your opinion again.
Micky, why would you say something as silly and foolish as, “its no surprise you think Clinton is God”??? I think he was a mediocre president and never have said anything else. Being ten times the statement of Bush II only makes him average at best.
George Bush has been the best thing to ever happen to “our enemies.” He gave them everything they wanted – martyrdom, a unifying enemy, religious war, blatant exemplary colonialism to prove our malintentions, the diplomatic isolation of the United States, oil prices through the roof, etc. George Bush is a failure. his supporters just can’t find it in themselves to be man enough to admit it.
Nobody gives martyrdom, its a choice, like suicide.
” unifying enemy”
They’ve been unifying for decades without Bush.
Its their religion that has dictated the jihad in progress for decades
“blatant exemplary colonialism to prove our malintentions”
Last I checked Iraq had its own government.
” the diplomatic isolation of the United States”
I choose my friends.
” oil prices through the roof ”
Thre goes the war for cheap oil arguement. Exxon brought 40 billion in profit this year. Will that show up on Bushs taxes ?
Besides all that which is really irrelevant, it still has nothing to do with Clinton being a screw up.
I show documents showing actual events and quotes from his own cabinet members and himself. Its all first hand info. Not an opinion or a suspicion.
Which is still….
Ahh yes. Here we go again folks ! “REALITY” on Jerseys terms.
And “OBJECTIVITY” from a guy who hates the other side.
You still as always fail to address the point.
I’ll go as far as to say that every president has his high and low points.
Mitigating and aggrivating circumstances. Even Bush, even Reagan.
But at least I will look for more concrete evidence of my claims than just an emotionally bias driven opinion. Derived from an ideoligy instead of reliable eveidence.
If you expect me or anyone to believe you just based on your opinion or some stories we are supposed to believe.
Micky, when I look at the piles of evidence of malfeasance, dishonesty and incompetence, the Bush administration may we ll be the worst in American history. If the Clinton did all the eact same things as the Bush administration has done, you’d call for their heads.
I actually suffer from focusing on too much at one time.
I can read an invoice and eaves drop on a conversation and talk on the phone at the same time. My wheels spin like crazy, its a plus in one way as I’m always aware of everything around me. Its a negative that led to my alcoholism and need to just shut down every day. You dont belive me. I’ll give you my phone # and you can ask my wife or any of my family.
I would not all for Clintons head. I was wondering why he didnt go after these A holes for a long time.
But it seems the left and its stoner do it later attitude along with its lack of accountabilty and personal responsability have prevailed in everything.
You cant drop a buck for a condomn ?
Thats OK, bill the government for 2000 bucks so we can cut the the kid out and throw it away.
Saddam shot at you 1600 times?
Thats allright, wait till he kills 3000 people also.
Dont like working?
Cool! Ask me and my wife to pay your bills.
Bought a house you couldnt afford ?
The left will tell the banks to leave you alone. If that dont work Micky and his wife will pay your mortgage.
Got illegal aliens ?
No worries ! we’ll just call them “undocumented Americans”
Got race problems/
Hey ! we’ll give you a hand out , just enough to get by so you’ll vote for us.
Anyway, back to the point.
You cant prove yours.
I showed you the goods. move on dot org.
Personally, I thought at the time, prior to the invasion, that Americans were a bunch of paranoid dellusionals. Saddam was not a signifcant threat to the US. Now that polls show that most people now think the war was a mistake, my faith in my fellow Americans has been somewhat restored. It’s a shame some people just can never admit they were wrong.
What America thinks now and what you thought then ?,
What you just displayed are two different things.
Its one thing for 20/20 hindsight. Which we all have. Its another to thing to bash most of us at the beggining of the war. And if I remember correctly , you seem to think the GWOT is a result of Americas paranoid delusions.
Once again jersey , you just pick and choose and make up stuff to back up your unprovable claims.
“It’s a shame some people just can never admit they were wrong.’
Why cant everyone see everything my way ?
“Saddam was not a signifcant threat to the US. ‘
This is the point you continuely miss out on. We were not going to wait for a “significant threat” !
Like I said in the post above and you just proved the point I was making about the lefts attitude and how it oozes into everything they do.
Lets wait till he kills 3000 people also, right ?
“Hey cruiser dude, you think that guy that shot at you 1600 times will be a significant threat one day?” Uh, I dont know man, lets wait and see. 🙂
Why would Saddam Hussein try to kill 3,000 Americans? Wouldn’t he rather not have a problem with America? Why would he take the chance of giving the Bushies an excuse to depose him? Heck, why did he invade Kuwait?
You see, this is what I don’t get: If I were a third world dictator, and I had problems with the US, or China, or Russia, or the EU, or India, the last thing I’d want to do is make any one of them angry at me. Now of course, if they threatened me, I’d pretend to have all sorts of crazy weapons, international “allies,” and formidable resources, but realistically I’d only have my personal circle and maybe a cozy outer-circle that might keep me alive. Couldn’t we just depose Sadam? Was Iraq really worth thousands of us dead and two trillion of our hard-earned dollars? Really? I’d rather spend my money on my kids, and everyone elses, than a colonial oil war in the Middle East. I have not and I think I will never understand the popular rationale for this stupid war.
“Why would Saddam Hussein try to kill 3,000 Americans? ‘
Gosh, maybe all the resolutions and no fly zones and trade limitations and baby sitting and inspections finally got to him? Kicking his ass out of Kuwait and humiliating and driving a narcissistic monster to surrender will usually do it.
We know he had his scope on Bush 1.
You’ll have to ask him, he tried hard enough as it was.
“Heck, why did he invade Kuwait?”
He thought it was his. And you have to admitt. I think his thought process was just a little different than most. Iran didnt work out too well. The Saudis were begging us to help keep him at bay. If anyone wanted oil it was Saddam.
Do you really think he was gonna go that easy.? “just depose him? What ? ” You’re fired ?” Most of the bathist had to go too, remember ? And the followers. People were still scared to death of him for the year he was living in a hole somewhere.
In my opinion there was two serious mistakes.
We went in too light. And we completely disbanded the Iraqi military.
Had we gone in bigger and assimilated the Iraqi army I think things would of turned out way different.
Was there ever a smart war ?No ! But some were neccesary. I believe this one was for strategic reasons and it has nothing to do with hearts and minds or spreading democracy. thats just the gravy. We are their because we wanted and needed to plant our butts where we could keep an eye on things and pose an intimidation to anyone who thinks they can just start training and planning attacks in the hope that our response will e limited by over 3000 to 6000 miles of ocean. And we need to protect the oil that we buy. We cant buy it if some terrorist element controls or destroys it.
Theirs no instant gratification here jersey. And after being exposed to the flu 1600 times plus a host of other germs you cant take a flu shot, not get sick and then say theres no proof it worked.
You’re supposedly an opened minded guy. Open your mind to all the possibilities and reasons besides anything you hear. Do really think that Bush or any president has been totally transparent in justifying and explainingtheir moves ?
I’ll bet there is a crap load of things Americans will never know about. just to to keep anarchy and pandemonium from breaking out.
Do you think Americans would of just settled for what I think the real reason was for going in ? Hell no ! We had to have valid reasons and excuses to do what we did.
Yeea, there were lies. But in the form of omission.
Cant tell everyone that our main interset was to set up shop, that would of not gone over too well. but using Saddams clear violations , agression and deception along with 911 gave us every reason to go in a look as if it were just regime change.