Rudy Giuliani Must Win

January 28, 2008 at 10:46 am (POLITICS)

http://www.tygrrrrexpress.com/2008/01/rudy-giuliani-must-win/

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81 Comments

  1. Jersey McJones said,

    Rudy won’t get my vote, regardless of who wins the Dem nom. The last thing America needs now is another “lower your taxes” ideologue, another paranoid purveyor of irrational fear, another rallier of racist xenophobes, and worst yet – another police state fascist.

    McCain and Huckabee both could get my vote – and the votes of many other split-ticketers, independents and swing voters. Giuliani can get some of them, but nearly as many as McCain or Huck. People like me are sick and tired of failed policies driven by ideology over reality, politics over pragmatism. Giuliani has bought into the neo-con cult that has so damaged this nation that we may well never recover. He’s the last person I would consider this time around. In a different world, maybe I could support him, but not today’s.

    I think republican voters are beginning to realize this as well. Rudy will lose Florida, and the rest will be history. He was a right mayor at the right time in NYC, and for the same reasons he’d be the wrong president at the wrong time for America today. New York City is not like most of America. New York in the early nineties isn’t even close to what it is today, let alone the rest of America and the world. Giuliani is a dinosuar from a place that doesn’t even exist anymore. Goodbye Rudy.

    JMJ

  2. coollikeme said,

    If Rudy Giuliani loses. Then I don’t know who to vote for. Just don’t like any other candidates. May be if Blomberg runs.

  3. Tony Iovino said,

    I disagree, respectfully. I think Rudy would be the right man at this time– I fear tho that Romney will be too plastic for the nation, and McCain not strong enough if it’s Hillary. An Obama-McCain race might be the most gentlemanly election in modern history– but if it’s Hillary she will chew him up.

    The great secret of Ronald Reagan that no one talks about is that he knew he was right and he, to a great extent, ignored the bleatings of the New York Times and the Washington Post. He ignored the polls. He knew what had to get done, and he did it.

    Liberals hated him for his tactics, as they do Rudy.

    But they loved his results, as they do with Rudy’s work in NYC.

    We need Rudy.

    I hope the good people of Florida agree tomorrow.

  4. micky2 said,

    JMJ;
    “People like me are sick and tired of failed policies driven by ideology over reality,”

    Osama Bin Laden;
    “OBL:” The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily. “

    Osama Bin Laden;
    “The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.
    The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them – peace be upon them all.”

    You think you’re sick and tired now ?

    The prospects of Osamas vision becoming “reality” are far greater if the left does not wake up to what is a true “reality.”
    For this reality is historical fact and has proven itself to be concrete and full of evidence, as it has also been mentioned in Osamas own words.

    Lets stop applying one mans reality to all subjects as if it was all of us who percieved everything through the same eyes.
    Its insulting to the intelligence and dignity of a lot of good and smart people.
    It makes you look autocratic and narrow minded .

  5. Jersey McJones said,

    So far, Tony, Rudy is stick way back in Third here in FL. There just aren’t enough retired New Yorkers and Cubans to put him over the top. Romney is pulling in the establishment voters and the Mid-Western retirees, and McCain is getting the rest.

    Of all the things I worry about on a day to day basis, Micky, Osama Bin Laden is way down the list. I have more realistic priorities to concern myself with.

    JMJ

  6. micky2 said,

    Your reality is one of your own, as are your priorities.
    But let me make clear that even with Osama dead, the consequences of the doctrine have already displayed a reality that is on going , factual and concrete. Irifutable.
    No matter what you try to cram down others throats as “reality”.
    There are realities that have proved themselves actually “real” .

  7. AL said,

    Mickey2: I know you don’t need my support because your logic in most arguments is irrefutable. However, I had a Ford moment when reviewing some material from “Understanding Arabs” by Nydell that I want to share with you and others. She states, “Westerners are taught that objectivity, the examination of facts in a logical way without the intrusion of emotional bias, is the mature and constructive approach to human affairs…[whereas] subjectivity – a willingness to allow personal feelings and emotions to influence one’s view of events – represents immaturity. Arabs believe differently. (p27) “Arabs consciously reserve the right to look at the world in a subjective way, particularly if a more objective assessment of a situation would bring to mind a too-painful truth….If you select or rearrange facts and if you repeat these to yourself often enough, they eventually become reality….Arabs are more likely to allow subjective perceptions to determine what is real and to direct their actions….”

    One can logically conclude that Arabs and liberals have something in common – their emotional subjectivity overrides factual objectivity. This conclusion doesn’t make the parallels among Arabs or liberals bad – it simply helps explain why liberals aren’t as concerned about the threat of Islamo-fascism – “…a more objective assessment of a situation would bring to mind a too-painful truth”… This same argument could be applied to socialized medicine, taxpayers subsidizing “no fault” insurance, and over-taxing businesses and wealthy citizens…

  8. Jersey McJones said,

    Micky, I’m worried about my family’s health. I’m worried about our healthcare costs. I’m worried about the value of my family’s real estate. I’m worried about getting health insurance to cover my helath issues. I’m woried about a looming recession and how that may affect my income. I’m worried about my wife commuting every day. I’m worried about oil-propelled inflation eating away at my budget. I’m worried about getting my debts (mostly in the form of student loans for my wife) paid off. I;m worried about the future of my nephews and nieces, and whether they may one day be shipped off to die in a futile colonial oil war. I’m worried that my nation has become hated by too many people in the world. I’m worried about the heroine flooding our streets and killing our kids. I’m worried about the state of our culture, education, social ills. I’m worried about the value of the dollar and the economic future of the nation.

    These are the sorts of things the average person thinks about day to day. Meanwhile, the fear-mongers want to take the peoples eyes’ off the prize and have them fret over terrorism, a threat that kills fewer Americans than almost any other cause of mortality, while the powers that be rape the taxpayors for sleazy contractors and the war mahine.

    Micky, this isn’t just my reality, my priorities. These are the real priorities of real everyday folks. So, fear all you want, Micky. Waste you time and hard earned tax dollars. Whatever. Us grown-ups will worry about the real issues facing America today.

    JMJ

  9. Jersey McJones said,

    “One can logically conclude that Arabs and liberals have something in common – their emotional subjectivity overrides factual objectivity.”

    What a dumb statement. Al, really??? What? Do you think only cons have a grasp on objectivity? That’s just goofy. You can do better than that.

    JMJ

  10. AL said,

    Jersey, Your response validates my point. And why worry about student debts – those are self-inflicted. Health care is available to anyone and everyone… my daughter went to the hospital a few nights ago, and the emergency room was filled with illegals waiting on “appointments” – which is why triage is so effective… and you don’t have to worry about your nieces and nephews getting shipped off to war…unless they volunteer. The worries in this country are a lot less critical than in others – something we don’t even consider. Lots of worries with no resolutions make for unhappy times… but the economy is cyclical, as is the job market, housing, and most everything else. Our culture is ever changing…sometimes like bacteria and other times to ferment…or in some cases foment…

  11. micky2 said,

    JMJ;
    “Micky, I’m worried about my family’s health. I’m worried about our healthcare costs. I’m worried about the value of my family’s real estate. I’m worried about getting health insurance to cover my helath issues. I’m woried about a looming recession and how that may affect my income. I’m worried about my wife commuting every day. I’m worried about oil-propelled inflation eating away at my budget. I’m worried about getting my debts (mostly in the form of student loans for my wife) paid off. I;m worried about the future of my nephews and nieces, and whether they may one day be shipped off to die in a futile colonial oil war. I’m worried that my nation has become hated by too many people in the world. I’m worried about the heroine flooding our streets and killing our kids. I’m worried about the state of our culture, education, social ills. I’m worried about the value of the dollar and the economic future of the nation.”

    Not one of those things has a mind of its own and wants to kill you.
    So please, dont try to confuse the issue.
    I worry about other things too jersey.
    But everything you mentioned could be taken away from you if you dont make sure the guy that wants to take it from you is prevented from doing so.
    And also , everything you mentioned we are actually able to control to a larger extent than terrorists. We vote, we buy , we choose , we budget as a means of applying our will.

    Al,
    I have often said the exact same thing. you said it better.
    The parallels between the two are identical.
    Their ideals are both built upon a vision of achieving utopia in the belief that a certain doctrine will eliminate all future conflicts. ( I hate to say this, but that is not realistic)
    What they dont see is the free will of man to make the most drastic changes he desires from one day to the next. They assume they can actually make all see everything their way. (gerbil warming)

    Jersey,
    Like most on the left you make the case first and then search for anything to support it later. Instead of finding a case with its own supportings already in place.
    like for example .Bin Laden.

  12. Jersey McJones said,

    “why worry about student debts?

    What the h@!! kind of question is that? Do you have any idea what it costs to get an education today? Of course I worry! It’s my biggest bill! If anything, God forbid, happens to me or my wife, we’d could be ruined! Why worry? Do you have any idea what people have to go through these days – especially the middle class – to get their kids through university? Why worry??? What planet do you live on? And who knows what the future brings? What if Iraq collapses after the impending draw-down? What if a new war is started? We don’t have enough soldiers, and we don’t have enough money to keep pouriong into the thieving war contractors and mercenaries. You don;t know what will be tomorrow, next year, next decade. I worry about real things like these, not the silly comic-book scenarios of the fear mongers.

    I, like most people, concern my self with real life, Al. The paranoid dellusionals of the GWOT crowd are just useless to me.

    JMJ

  13. Jersey McJones said,

    Micky, I have nothing against fighting terrorism, and certainly do not believe they should be ignored, but it is nowhere near the top of my priorities, nor the majority of Americans. The GOP is going to continue to pay dearly for their screwed-up prorities for a long time to come. So much for that short-lived majority.

    JMJ

  14. micky2 said,

    Still, none of what you mention wants to and is trying to kill you with intent.
    When the next attack occurs, none of that will matter to you.
    We must secure our country so that you have the luxury of worrying about those things.

    JMJ;
    “What if a new war is started?
    If you guys would pull your heads out and deal with whats in front of you the odds of that happening would be greatly reduced

  15. Jersey McJones said,

    Micky, I don’t really care about what some sickos in the Middle East want. We are America, not Israel. I do not fear terrorists. I worry more about my health, the health of my loved ones, automobile accidents, the care of my home, etc.

    “If you guys would pull your heads out and deal with whats in front of you the odds of that happening would be greatly reduced.”

    Recent history proves that just plain wrong. You neo-cons are warmongers. The sooner you are all out of power, the safer we and the whole world will be.

    JMJ

  16. charly martel said,

    Jersey,

    Not one of the things you worry about can be made better by government. Even the value of the dollar would be more stable if our government would just resist the urge to “prime the pump’ by printing more of it. The one thing government should do is protect the borders and the nation. The nursemaiding of able adults is better not done at all. We are “entitled” to life, liberty, and the pursuit (not necessarily catching it) of happiness.

    SCOTUS has done more to undermine the average person’s ability to fend for himself than anyone except for the senate and house of representatives. With the help of the circuit courts of appeal.

  17. AL said,

    Jersey, I don’t mean to make light of your personal situation – or for anyone else’s for that matter. I applaud the fact your wife went to college, and you want to pay for your kids’ education. I had the gravy train – Even though I grew up lower middle class, I was accepted to West Point many years ago and had them pay ME to go to school… but I got stupid and quit. Through personal funding and assistance from civilian employers, I eventually got my degree at 48. My daughters are applying for scholarships and jobs to help them through school. One daughter has an Associates – on line, but inexpensive. She and her husband are giving up some privacy by living with us so she can afford to go to school for her Bachelors, but student loans are a definite.

    We seem to have a dilemna in dealing with war/Iraq/oil/stability in the Middle East. We can’t have it both ways… we either have to maintain a strong military, and likely increase its strength to maintain the balance of power in the Middle East, or we can succumb to an impending drawdown that would very likely lead to a collapse if done too soon or too “steeply” – this one is a reality, and you nailed it. One of the reasons the Arabs distrust us is because of meddling and broken promises in WWI. Promises were made that weren’t kept – primarily by Great Britain, but we weren’t totally innocent. We then forced geographical boundaries on different religions and tribes – not a recipe for success back then, so our first few years at this “war” endeavor were tenuous at best. New leadership is allowing for flexibility in making things work according to the situation in each area as opposed to a cookie cutter approach that initially failed miserably….but that’s a different story. To mitigate the worries you and so many Americans have today: continue working, vote, buy a house based on what you now make as opposed to betting on its future worth or your potential earnings, keep loving your kids and keep them close…and certainly not in that order!

  18. micky2 said,

    Tell that to Pearl Harbor.
    Recent history ?
    Now… If you want to talk about dumb statements, theres one.
    Recent history going back maybe say to uh… 911?
    We have been worrying about radical Islam, and so far we have not been attacked. Now history before we attacked Afghanistan proves you to be 100% wrong.
    Like Al said. you are not dealing with the facts here. So there is no way in la la land you could ever be right

    Your recent version of history would be your reality ? (talk about comic books)

    Still everything you mention is not wanting or trying to kill you with intent.

  19. Max said,

    Since you are a war-mongering fool like the current POTUS, I guess you just forgot to mention Congressman Ron Paul in your article (since he is by far the best choice for the GOP right now) or you perhaps chose to purposely leave him and any mention of him out of your article for fear that you might admit to being wrong about some of your “conclusions.”

    Giuliani is a crook. When people start writing books about your personal back-handed dealings it is time to step down from the limelight. When 9/11 firefighters tell you how badly you handled a situation you praise yourself for, it may be time to pack it in. Unfortunately for the Neo-cons, they actually think that means they are doing well!

  20. Jersey McJones said,

    Al, my wife had a 3.98 average and a 50% scholarship. She had no one to help her go to college and had languuished until I came along and helped here through school. Just the same, with that average and that scholarship, her education cost a fortune. I guess it just doesn’t pay to be a good and decent human being who wants to work in poor school districts. I guess she should just have become yet another MBA, useless to everyone in the world but themselves.

    “We seem to have a dilemna in dealing with war/Iraq/oil/stability in the Middle East. We can’t have it both ways”

    That would be true if there were only two ways. Contrary to the popular opinion foisted upon us from the corporate media and the sleazy partisan pols, there are usually more than two ways of approaching anything, Al

    Micky,

    Pearl Harbor? What does that have to do with anything?

    I don’t care if “everything (I) mention is not wanting or trying to kill (me) with intent.” I’m more likely to die because of the acts of an AMerican who is trying to kill me with intent then some Islam-crazed hashassin with a bomb. I get it and it still does not sway my opinion – nor the opinion of 85% of the rest of the country that doesn’t put terrorism as their number one priority. If the GOP candidate runs on terrorism as the number one issue – they will lose.

    JMJ.

  21. AL said,

    Jersey, May be a miscommunication – From your statement, “And who knows what the future brings? What if Iraq collapses after the impending draw-down? What if a new war is started? We don’t have enough soldiers, and we don’t have enough money to keep pouriong into the thieving war contractors and mercenaries.”, I inferred you had posed a dilemna of “if this, then that”, and I addressed it as such. I have always purported that there are usually more than two sides. Your point about your wife working is a great example. The way it reads is, she either chooses to work in a poor school district that needs her help but pays poorly, or she goes someplace else and makes more money. Certainly, there are other options, but the choice she has made seems to be the best one for future generations and this nation. I got my Masters in Education with the intent of teaching once I left the uniform, but teacher pay in Georgia is rather insulting. If I were altruistic, I would consider that option, but we have settled into a lifestyle.

    Max, ” When people start writing books about your personal back-handed dealings it is time to step down from the limelight.” Or, maybe one has stepped on some toes and done something right. The recent “300+ lies” our administration is accused of saying, the attacks on Reagan, Carter, MLK, JFK, et al – none are innocent, but the more publicity one gets, the more passionate people are about that person and the things that person has done or failed to do. First name first name doesn’t impassion the masses because he hasn’t done anything…

  22. greg said,

    Al, I’m wondering how you were able to figure out the ER was filled with illegals. Were they wearing badges?

    I think our current president is one of th worst this country has ever seen, but he was right on one point. He told us not to obsess over terrorism, to go about our daily lives, for if we do obsess, the terrorists win. I agree with him on that point.

    Of course I am concerned about terrorism, and it is a factor in determining who I will vote for, but as an individual there is very little else I can do to influence the GWOT or exercise any control over. It also has very little direct impact on my life. The chances of being being injured or killed in an automobile accident are far greater than the chances of me being injured or killed by Osama.

    In fact, last August I was injured in an automobile accident and I will be having major surgery on my back this coming March, so I am very concerned in the health care crisis and whether my insurance will pay for the costs. I am very concerned about the economy and whether we will be financially stable during the several months I’ll be off work recovering.

    On January 12 I became a grandfather for the first time (the cutest little guy you’ll ever meet, by the way!). His mother and her family are Mexican Americans (all of whom living in the US are American citizens) and he will be raised bilingually and biculturally. But even though little Joey’s family tree in this country is older than the country itself and goes back to the days of William Penn and includes a US Senator and a presidential candidate or two, I worry about immigration and racism and whether people will assume my grandson is illegal just because his skin is a bit browner than theirs. These are real issues over which I have control, at least in my little corner of the world, and they are the ones that rise to the top of my list.

  23. Jersey McJones said,

    Well Al, that’s why I don’t want to live in a country run by conservatives. I want a country that values people like my wife, not just the personally wealthy. Now, don’t get me wrong. I could have done something more altruistic than being a corporate collections man and an importer, and I am in no way imparting any judegment on you. But I don’t like the direction the country is going in and I want a future where people can do both things – be altruistic and not be poor. (Though, to be honest, part of her choice has to do with the the fact that she doesn’t care much for the spoiled brats in burbs)

    “Al, I’m wondering how you were able to figure out the ER was filled with illegals. Were they wearing badges?”

    I noted that too but was unable to find a diplomatic way to ask about it…

    JMJ

  24. greg2 said,

    I believe this is what jersey meant by not enough soldiers….
    U.S. Cannot Manage Contractors In Wars, Officials Testify on Hill
    Problem Is Linked to Lack of Trained Service Personnel
    Walter Pincus, Washington Post, Friday, January 25, 2008; A05
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/24/AR2008012403384.html

    With even more U.S. contractors now in Iraq and Afghanistan than U.S. military personnel, government officials told Congress yesterday that the Bush administration is not prepared to manage the contractors’ critical involvement in the American war effort.

    At the end of last September, there were “over 196,000 contractor personnel working for the Defense Department in Iraq and Afghanistan,” said Jack Bell, deputy undersecretary of defense for logistics and materiel readiness.

    Contractors “have become part of our total force, a concept that DoD [the Defense Department] must manage on an integrated basis with our military forces,” he also said in prepared testimony for a hearing yesterday of the Senate homeland security subcommittee. “Frankly,” he continued, “we were not adequately prepared to address” what he termed “this unprecedented scale of our dependence on contractors.”

    Stuart W. Bowen Jr., special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, and William M. Solis, director of defense capabilities and management for the Government Accountability Office, testified that not enough trained service personnel are available to handle outsourcing to contractors in the wars.

  25. AL said,

    Greg, You make a great point about whether the illegals in ER were wearing badges. In the Southwest, there are many areas in which Spanish is spoken as a first language among US citizens. On the other hand, In Gwinnett County Georgia, English is the first language for most, if not all citizens, because not long ago, only Bubbas lived here. (I’m a Northern transplant). The badge these illegals was wearing consisted of being of Hispanic descent, speaking Spanish, and being in the ER for routine business and not emergencies.. Because my daughter’s case required immediate response, she was seen quickly, and the nurse told us that most of the people in the waiting room were illegals, and they were required, by law, to see them. And, the reason they come in late at night is because they don’t get as much harassment from paying customers or law enforcement.

    Congratulations on your grandson. I became a grandfather last year, and I understand what a great treat it is.

    The great part about this country is we can have such diverse opinions. I believe our president is one of the best ever BECAUSE he is trying to do something as opposed to maintaining status quo. I suppose we all have our “hot” buttons – whether they be insurance, education, immigration, or racism. This is one of the reasons I am such a big fan of the church – charity may begin at home, but I think it should end with the church, not the government. The government has its place for maintaining an infrastructure (sewage, water, transportation, education (to protect against racism and ignorant decisions), electricity, law and order) and protecting us from enemies foreign and domestic, and that’s about as far as it should go. Insurance, higher education, abortions, same sex marriages, et al should be left to supply and demand.

  26. micky2 said,

    We simply werent worried enough about the Japanese Jersey.
    Seeing as how what we should and should not worry about is the subject.

    Your remark about recent history make s absolutley no sense at all. Recent history dictates that we didnt do enough worrying untill after 911. And since then we have paid attention to the threat (no thanks to the left) and there have been no attacks on our soil, or any American interest other than the battle field.

    JMJ;
    “I don’t care if “everything (I) mention is not wanting or trying to kill (me) .
    Its not just about you. Think about that.

    JMJ;
    “I guess it just doesn’t pay to be a good and decent human being who wants to work in poor school districts. ‘
    What the hell does that have to do with anything?
    Should bleeding hearts get preference over those who are able willing to pay for their goods ? Its called “find a way’
    I’m full of good intent, the market doesnt care.
    You bitch about teachers pay, and then you want them to give away their services ?

    As far the countries priorities goes. Terrorism is #2 on the list, the economy is #1.
    I can read polls also.
    The economy works in cycles, always has. You’re the history expert, you should know this.
    No matter how bad or good our economy is , one of the goals of radical Islam is to drain us financially. Dont even try to tell me that the war is not costing us.
    Of course you know all this but will not connect the two in this discussion, why ?
    As a matter of fact the two are only separated by a couple points in most polls.

    Overall, almost one out of four voters says the economy (23 percent) will be the most important issue on their mind when they vote this fall, followed by the situation in Iraq (14 percent) and terrorism (12 percent). Here’s how the remaining issues rank: health care (11 percent), immigration (9 percent), gas prices (8 percent), Social Security (7 percent) and ethics in Washington (6 percent).

    For Democrats, the top issues are the economy (26 percent) and Iraq (17 percent). Republicans pick terrorism (22 percent) and the economy (19 percent), with only a few citing Iraq as the main issue deciding their vote (7 percent).

    http://www.pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,211561,00.html
    Voters who say the economy is most important are more likely to back the Democratic candidate by 30 percentage points; voters who put Iraq as the main issue are much more likely to vote for the Democrat by 47 points. For terrorism voters, the advantage goes to the Republican by 42 points.

  27. greg said,

    Al, I agree with a lot of what you said. However, there are an awful lot of places other than the southwest where languages other than English are spoken as a matter of course. In fact, Gwinnett County has the largest Asian and Hispanic populations in the state of Georgia, together comprising more than 27% of the entire population.

    And many people have to use the ER for routine services because they don’t have medical insurance, citizen or not.

  28. micky2 said,

    I guess the nurse was lying

  29. Jersey McJones said,

    Micky, Roosevelt and the military were well aware of the Japanese threat. I would double-check your understanding of the history of the war and it’s build-up.

    Only 15% of respondents in a poll out just today put terrorism at number one. So, I figure, 15% of the population is either gillible, paranoid dellusional, and stand to net a profit from the GWOT. ;)

    JMJ

  30. greg said,

    Or perhaps the nurse was making the same assumption without actually knowing …

  31. AL said,

    Greg, Again, good point – in and around Doraville, you wouldn’t know we were in the US – most of the businesses have signs that I don’t recognize – and they aren’t Spanish. Mickey nailed it – the nurse wasn’t lying – but in fairness to you, I didn’t divulge all my information in making my post – I am new to this forum and have not established any credibility, so it seems like quibbling to mention the nurse after the fact, or that Gwinnett County has been inundated with illegals.

    This discussion has actually done two things. First, it has challenged me to provide more accurate details rather than make broad statements. Second, it has pointed out that although many citizens express concern over lack of health insurance or adequate care, the system seems to be working quite well.

  32. redhawk said,

    I had been an earlt Rudy Supporter having lived in NYC and seen the positive effects of his mayoralty…however after he chose to pull out of NH where he actually had favorable numbers and concentrated solely in FL, i began to question his strategy.
    Thompson was my favorite, followed by Mitt, Rudy in that order until Fred left and Now I am Hoping fora Mitt/Fred ticket with Rudy either as NYS Senator beating SCHMUCKIE SCHUMER or as US atty General… IF I MUST . Ill hold my nose and Vore for MAC Burger…

  33. micky2 said,

    Jersey, give me a large freaking break would you ?
    I live in hawaii. Do you know how many times I’ve heard the story behind Pearl Harbour from the horses mouth ? Have you ever been to the memorial ?
    We were not paying attention, PERIOD ! We took it for grantite that the Japnese were not going to attack us because we took their word for it.

    JMJ;
    “Only 15% of respondents in a poll out just today put terrorism at number one. So, I figure, 15% of the population is either gillible, paranoid dellusional, and stand to net a profit from the GWOT. ”

    Dont misquote me Jersey. I was more than willing to admitt that terrorism was #2 on the list and the economy #1. I even provided links proving your position and mine. Did you read them ?

    Your numbers only come from Florida, I found them here.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2428418520080127?sp=true
    The poll in Florida showed the economy was the top issue among likely voters, at 39 percent. The war on terrorism ranked second at 14 percent, ahead of the war in Iraq at 12 percent.

    Heres another one. BUT ITS NATIONWIDE !!
    http://www.pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm
    CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. Jan. 14-17, 2008. N=1,393 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

    “How important will each of the following be to your vote for president? Will it be extremely important, very important, moderately important, or not that important? . . .”

    Economy 45%
    Iraq 43%
    Terrorism42%

    Greg . I guess Al was lying.

  34. AL said,

    Greg, You link corresponding with “I believe this is what jersey meant by not enough soldiers….” is on target. The military has been shrinking since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and I was a strong proponent of civilianizing many positions at strategic and theater level (cooks, mechanics, mil intel/analysts, engineers, et al). In the process of converting many positions, we went to war and embarked on a combination of nation building, war, and civil engineer work… a monstrous task that we certainly didn’t have the hierarchy or infrastructure to handle.

    No doubt there has been waste, fraud, and abuse – some because of good intentions but not enough oversight, and some becuase people are simply greedy. I don’t think it would have made a difference if the abovementioned contractors had been Soldiers – we simply needed more security personnel, linguists, MI, CIED experts, grunts, commo, and MPs on the ground, up close and personal… and a different strategy! …like the one we have now. The war wouldn’t be costing so much if we could rein in costs and get a grip on whose doing what. Most contractors are actually doing good work – unfortunately, some of it is misguided, redundant, and/or unsupervised. AL

  35. Verlin Martin said,

    Rudy will lose FL, and pull out.

    It will be between Romney and McCain on the R side… since there is no conservative left, I’ll go with the closest thing, Romney.

    Although I’d vote for anyone besides RuPaul or Huckabee :)

  36. coollikeme said,

    Ron Paul is a joke!!! In a month or so I hope I never hear that name again.

  37. Jersey McJones said,

    Sorry, Micky. I read so many polls and other stuff everyday, I have a hard time sorting it all out in my head sometimes. Although, that Florida poll will tell you just how well Giuiani (aka: 9/11 Guy) will do here today.

    Al,

    “I was a strong proponent of civilianizing many positions at strategic and theater level (cooks, mechanics, mil intel/analysts, engineers, et al”

    Do you have any idea how much more expensive these guys are as opposed to regular military?

    “The war wouldn’t be costing so much if we could rein in costs and get a grip on whose doing what.”

    Well, I guess you do now! ;)

    JMJ

  38. micky2 said,

    Jersey, wars always have a large impact on economies. Put two and two together.
    Rudy had nothing to do with my point. My point was priorities and what people are worried about. And I backed up my claim that terrorism was only a couple points behind the economy.

    And as far as the shorage of servicemen goes. Cities like SF dont even want recruiters anywhere around. Lib colleges who hate military etc…
    Be nice since its a volunteer force if we could advertise to the sector we need without a bunch of moonbats trying to shut down as many offices as they can.

  39. greg2 said,

    Thanks Al, and here’s a little more to back the continued war problems that Jersey is worried about!
    ‘If there is no change in three months, there will be war again’
    Patrick Cockburn, The Independent, Monday, 28 January 2008
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/if-there-is-no-change-in-three-months-there-will-be-war-again-774847.html

    “If there is no change in three months there will be war again,” said Abu Marouf, the commander of 13,000 fighters who formerly fought the Americans. He and his men switched sides last year to battle al-Qa’ida and defeated it in its main stronghold in and around Fallujah.

    “If the Americans think they can use us to crush al-Qa’ida and then push us to one side, they are mistaken,” Abu Marouf told The Independent in an interview in a scantily furnished villa beside an abandoned cemetery near the village of Khandari outside Fallujah. He said that all he and his tribal following had to do was stand aside and al-Qa’ida’s fighters would automatically come back. If they did so he might have to ally himself to a resurgent al-Qa’ida in order to “protect myself and my men”.

    Abu Marouf said he was confident that his forces controlled a swath of territory stretching east from Fallujah into Baghdad and includes what Americans called “the triangle of death” south-west of the capital. Even so his bodyguards, armed with AK-47 assault rifles, nervously watched the abandoned canals and reed beds around his temporary headquarters. Others craned over light machine guns in newly built watch towers. Several anti-Qa’ida tribal leaders have been killed by suicide bombers in recent weeks.

    His threat is highly dangerous for the US and Iraqi government, neither of which made any headway in ending the Sunni insurgency against the US occupation for four years until the tribes of Anbar, the province in which Fallujah lies, turned against al-Qa’ida. They formed the Awakening movement, known in Arabic as al-Sahwah, of which Abu Marouf, whose full name is Karim Ismail Hassan al-Zubai, is a leading member.

    The Iraqi Foreign Minister, Hoshyar Zebari, warned last week it would be “very dangerous” if the Awakening movement’s 80,000 fighters were not absorbed into the army and police. “They are not that well organised and could easily be manipulated by al-Qa’ida,” he said.

    The Iraqi government fears ceding power to the Awakening movement which it sees as an American-funded Sunni militia, whose leaders are often former military or security officers from Saddam Hussein’s regime and are unlikely to show long-term loyalty to the Shia and Kurdish-dominated administration.

    Part of Abu Marouf’s force is paid for by the Americans. Ordinary fighters are believed to receive $350 (£175) a month and officers $1,200, but some receive no salary. He makes clear that he wants long-term jobs for himself and his followers and that “they must be long-term jobs”. There is more than just money involved here. The Sunni tribal leaders want a share of power in Baghdad which they lost when Saddam Hussein was deposed.

    The US calls the Awakening movement groups “Concerned Citizens”, as if they were pacific householders heroically restoring law and order. In fact, the US has handed over Sunni areas to the guerrilla groups such as the 1920 Brigades and the Islamic Army who have been blowing up American solders since 2003.

    This creates a serious problem for the Iraqi government and for the Americans themselves. Though Abu Marouf wants to join the government security forces, he volunteers that he considers the present Iraqi government of Nouri al-Maliki “the worst government in the world – his army has got 13 divisions, most of which are recruited from Shia militias controlled by Iran.” It is clear that Abu Marouf sees the Shia religious party takeover of government as something to be resisted.

  40. laree said,

    Eric,

    Meanwhile back at the ranch GRIN.

    http://imustimes.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/rev-al-to-wild-bill-just-shut-up/

    That’s some cohoneys telling a former President of the U.S to shut up huh!

  41. Jersey McJones said,

    Micky,

    It depends on the poll whether people place terrorism high on their priorities or not. If you ask them to rank say “social issues, eductaion and the war” then you get one set of order. If you ask them to rank say “unemployment, the deficit and terrorism” then you get another set. The Florida poll showed that most people rank terrorism pretty low.

    As for recruiting, the military is doing everything they can, from video games to advertising during kids shows. Pathetic. New recruitment is down because the war is wrong. Reenlistment, on the other hand, always gfoes up in a time of war. It’s just the nature of comradery among young men. Bush and Co take advantage of that.

    JMJ

  42. greg2 said,

    micky2″Cities like SF dont even want recruiters anywhere around. Lib colleges who hate military etc…”
    Most colleges are liberal unless they are religion based (i.e. catholic, babtist). Open minded, empathetic to world problems are the focus in higher education. Now, I’ve never gone to religious based schools, because of their poor record in student outcomes.

  43. Jersey McJones said,

    Greg,

    I may be an atheist, but I happen to know that most Catholic schools are politically liberal as well – at least among the staff. Almost all the best schools are.

    Also, Catholic schools are better than public schools, and Jesuit schools are among the best. “Christian” schools, that is schools that are not otherwise affiliated with Catholics, Mormons, and mainline Protestents, tend to be at the bottom of the heap.

    JMJ

  44. micky2 said,

    JMJ;
    “The Florida poll showed that most people rank terrorism pretty low.’

    Once again. Its a national issue. And not about what freaking Florida thinks about Rudy or anything.

    Greg, the only point is this. There are some prime examples of those who would rather lose the war just so they can say they were right. The institutions that reject recruiting are just a tool of that sentiment. SF wants no military whatsoever.

    Open minded my butt, as long as you agree with them. Otherwise you get shouted down and off the stage. Open minded to leftist views.
    You hit it on the nail when you mentioned world problems. half of these punks dont give a crap about what happens here. Its all about giving dung beetles proper housing and seeing how much of Americas wealth they can ship out.
    Ohh they need this and they need that and America should do this and that and America is evil if they dont.
    Open minded and naive is quite possibly one of the most dangerous things anyone can be.

  45. Allan said,

    Fortunately for the USA, Rudy doesn’t have a chance.

    According to former NYC Mayor Ed Koch, Rudy Giuliani’s true personality lies somewhere between Pinochet’s and Caligula’s. Mayor Koch chuckles during a filmed interview at the memories of having called Rudy both names. It seems the nuclear attack against the U.S.A. won’t come from any outside force despite the inevitable pattern of lies from the government. It won’t involve an actual nuclear weapon either. Like the “nuclear option” threatened in the Senate, no nuclear weapon will be involved. Our future is threatened by a Rudy Giuliani as a nuclear weapon, primed to set off and madly preside over an unprecedented, horrible period in our history. Something never seen before in this young country.

    To put into any of the Republican presidential candidate’s sociopathic hands the illegally expanded “unitary executive” powers as they will be in January, 2009 will surely eliminate whatever’s left of the “soft” part of Bush’s “soft fascism”. Their purpose? Same as George W. (“The Wuss”) Bush’s. For a few greedy bastards to drain every last drop of available public and private cash into their own bank accounts. Stop The Wuss now through impeachment or plan accordingly. The Great Depression was a solitary era, nothing can compare to it because the exact circumstances will never be re-created.

    Still, to provide some wildly inaccurate frame of measurement, what is coming, and is too late to stop, will be 100 times “worse” than The Great Depression, although in unique ways — ways which will leave John Q. Public (D’s and R’s) broke, shocked, awed, and cowed; or broke, shocked, woken and resisting. Dangerous times are directly ahead, should the GOPhers steal another election. These predictions are provided free of charge. For your own amusement, save this somewhere and see if they come true.

    Is it just me, or is there a consistantly present shadow under Rudy’s nose? Stop them now or plan accordingly.

  46. Jersey McJones said,

    “Once again. Its a national issue. And not about what freaking Florida thinks about Rudy or anything.”

    I thought that was was the whole point of this post.

    JMJ

  47. greg2 said,

    Totally understand jersey and as I stated I never studied at a catholic institution.
    lay teachers used in catholic institutions create a poorer quality of education, was my point. Good followers of the faith would be conservative. Most of the catholics that I’m exposed to are conservative. Not because they have thought out this decision but are merely following what the church recommends. Guiliani is Pro-choice and therefore not backed by their conservative views.

  48. micky2 said,

    Stop playing games jersey !
    The issue was national, not Florida. The issue was based on this statement of yours
    JMJ:
    “- nor the opinion of 85% of the rest of the country that doesn’t put terrorism as their number one priority. If the GOP candidate runs on terrorism as the number one issue – they will lose.”

    You said country ! And I proved that those numbers came from Florida, not the entire nation ! Which feels completely different. And if you throw in a 2-3 % margin of error, the two are neck in neck.
    Economy 45%
    Iraq 43%
    Terrorism42%
    You even apologized yourself for the screw up.
    Now give me a break , would you ?

  49. greg2 said,

    micky2,”Open minded and naive is quite possibly one of the most dangerous things anyone can be.”
    I agree that naive is troublesome, but being open minded has nothing to do with the state of lacking experience, understanding or sophistication. Being open minded just means you will allow in different thoughts to mull over their validity even if you disagree.

  50. micky2 said,

    “experience, understanding or sophistication”

    If these campuses are so open minded then why have they already determined which ideology they get there marching orders from ?

    Marzin Stewart of the minutemen got booed off stage at Columbiathen and went on to faced protesters out front.
    They carried signs with messages such as “Minute-Klan, Get the Khell Out of New York” and “The Minutemen Are Not Our America.”

    David Horowitz got booed off the stage at Emory.

    Not very open minded when it comes to free speech now, are they ?

  51. greg2 said,

    micky2, no i agree that’s protestors for you, but they have that right, and that’s what makes America, AMERICA. Thank God that people in all stages of growth can speak their mind. Perhaps we should not get upset by either side and just realize everyone is on a different path all heading for the same goal. If everyone is working on the same goal then the choice of path is irrelevant. Therefore your path is right for you just as mine is right for me at this stage of our life. I just can’t tell others that my way, is the only choice. Just as I don’t appreciate other’s telling me that they have the “right” way.

    So is it the rudeness of the protestors that gets you or that all of us aren’t the same?

  52. greg2 said,

    lack of respect is rampant, i think that’s what your seeing, not a partisan issue.

  53. AL said,

    Looks as if I missed out on a bunch of traffic while my daughter was fighting Islamo-facism…(having a baby! – April Marie is my new granddaughter)…

    Jersey, there’s a misconception about your statement, “Do you have any idea how much more expensive these guys are as opposed to regular military?”. Yes, I was a contractor myself. It is actually cheaper to hire contractors because 1) they are already trained, 2) you can choose not to renew the contract, and 3) there are no residual costs such as retirement, benefits, et al. Granted, we haven’t managed contracts as well as we could – but I’ve already discussed this. I was a contracting officer for the Army for 3 years, so I also understand there are some contracts that are open-ended, closed-ended, la la la la

    As far as re-enlistments going up during war, I might challenge that one… during WWI and WWII, people weren’t allowed to go home for 3, 4 or 5 years – until the mission was complete, so there wasn’t a re-enlistment option! At least today’s volunteers generally only stay 15 months, and that is shrinking to 12 soon. During Korea and Vietnam, re-enlistment rates were not so good. Quite frankly, today’s re-enlistment rates seem more of an anomaly. It could be fellowship; it could be monetary, it could be that many believe in our purpose there – lots of different reasons for lots of different Soldiers. Enlistment rates, on the other hand, are cyclical just as are the previously mentioned economy and housing markets. During poor economic times, we see an increase in enlistments. During good times, there is a decrease. If things are as dire as most predict, we will see a significant increase in enlistments very soon. However, since most people still have televisions, cell phones, air conditioning, indoor plumbing, cars out the ying yang, computers, and all other “necessities”, I’m not convinced this country is in any serious trouble except a self-imposed materialistic funk.

    Greg2: From the very beginning, GEN Petraeus has attributed the surge’s success to Iraqi’s taking a stand against Al Qaeda. It is well documented that many of the people who are fighting on our side today were fighting against us a couple months ago. When I was at the National Police Training Academy last year, we trained about 4,000 recruits – many of them Maudi and JAM (militant militia groups). We put Kurds, Sunnis and Shia together in classrooms, and it was tenuous at best, but they didn’t try to hurt one another until night fell. From my foxhole, it makes sense to ensure that leaders such as Abu Marouf are “legitimized” in their own country, and this has been one of the greatest shortfalls and recognized failings – by disbanding the Sunni-heavy Iraqi Army, we created unrest because people didn’t have jobs – and hungry men with dependents are ripe for terrorism – and one doesn’t have to study counter-insurgency operations to know this. And, not only did the Sunni “ruling class” lose military positions, but they also lost local, state, and national jobs because the Shia majority treated Saddam’s ousting as payback time. The latter makes perfect sense, and there was definitely some housecleaning, but we are getting beyond that – one step at a time. It has been a severe struggle to ensure that contracts to tribal and town leaders are distributed equitably among Kurds, Sunnie, and Shia. Unfortunately, we are not there yet, but recognizing a problem is the first step in correcting it. This wasn’t on our radar screen a few years ago.

    Terrorists are generally the disaffected – not merely religious fanatics. In the few weeks I spent in Iraq last year, I never saw one Iraqi go through any prayer rituals – morning, midmorning, noon, afternoon, or night. I am not discounting their faith, I am merely postulating that the unrest we have seen in Afghanistan and Iraq has more to do with hunger, a perceived futile future, and a feeling of hopelessness than it has to do with “hating Americans”.

  54. micky2 said,

    Greg;
    “Thank God that people in all stages of growth can speak their mind. ”

    But not when think its their right to shut others up.

    “So is it the rudeness of the protestors that gets you or that all of us aren’t the same?”

    Neither. You said ; “Most colleges are liberal unless they are religion based (i.e. catholic, babtist). Open minded, empathetic to world problems are the focus in higher education. ”
    When others dont share the same empathy they shut them down. So by proxy the lib doctrine cancels out the “open minded” theory

    Greg;
    “lack of respect is rampant, i think that’s what your seeing, not a partisan issue.”

    But the same arrogance demands respect

  55. greg2 said,

    Agree thanks Al,
    Micky2, “When others dont share the same empathy they shut them down. So by proxy the lib doctrine cancels out the “open minded” theory”

    No it’s protestors and rudeness that is not following the open minded theory. There are just as many protestors on both sides that go over the top. All I stated was that Colleges and Universities teach liberal thought. Doesn’t mean that 100% of the students are buying it. Just a statement of fact. I can tell you if you have returned to school in the past ten to 15 years it is downright frightening how the general knowledge IQ has dropped dramatically. It’s so sad how much teachers have to backtrack because of what isn’t taught in high school. But I think respect is taught from your family. If it’s not taught at home, where are people supposed to pick it up?

    “But the same arrogance demands respect”
    no, arrogance on either side deserves no respect, how about ignoring arrogance. Everyone can learn, that differences are meant to enrich not separate. This is why you can still love and learn from someone who thinks differently from yourself. At least I love my wife very much but we are polar opposites. I just don’t feel that automatically means she is not a good person. The polarizing factor of always looking for how we are different bothers me. How about looking at how we are alike in what we all want in the long run.

    There will always be people, on both sides, who act out. Perhaps if we stop looking for how people offend us, we then won’t be pre-set to constantly look for the fight. If I think you are going to offend me, am I not setting myself up for a hair trigger reaction. Just a thought. I find if I focus on giving people the benefit of the doubt, they usually prove me right.

  56. micky2 said,

    Greg;
    “No it’s protestors and rudeness that is not following the open minded theory’
    And the colleges are full of them, why ?

    Greg;
    “no, arrogance on either side deserves no respect, how about ignoring arrogance. ”

    I meant they can dish it out but not take it.

    And I’m sorry but the radical disrespectful protests are mostly coming from the left. They are the ones making the news. Even the left media cant hide it.

  57. greg2 said,

    Micky2 “I meant they can dish it out but not take it.”
    Thems sound like fightin’ words to me ;>). Perhaps as I said above Protestors are looking for the backlash. Therefore fulfilling their self-created reactions.

    Micky2″And I’m sorry but the radical disrespectful protests are mostly coming from the left. They are the ones making the news. Even the left media cant hide it.”

    And the nice thing about America is you can blame anyone you like. You have free speech. Just so I can also have free speech, and I’m not a protestor.
    Sorry but the media has been corporation owned and biased for many years. I have to go overseas for real news.

  58. greg2 said,

    sorry meant self-fulfilling prophecy or reactions…

  59. micky2 said,

    “Therefore fulfilling their self-created reactions.”
    getting high on themselves

  60. greg2 said,

    No creating the negativity they feel they deserve. Self-fulfilling prophecy all comes about because of how someone subconciously thinks therefore creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of negative reactions by others.

  61. micky2 said,

    So they’re punks ? :-)

  62. micky2 said,

    I see this a lot in treatment centers. Any attention is good attention. Sometimes masking a cry for help by acting out in self righteous and self promoting manners.
    Pissing people off doesnt always make you right or get your point across. It just makes you feel better and cures your insecurity temporarily by creating short term doses of percieved power.

  63. Winston Fahrenheit said,

    Fiction – 1. Literature in prose form describing imaginary events and people. 2. A false belief or statement or a set thereof.

    It just gets better and better, not. I can’t believe I wasted 30 minutes of my entire life reading two postings on your blog. I find it hard to believe you have regular readers.

    9/11 was a fiction, America’s attempt at mass public deception, and it almost worked.

    Philip Zelikow wrote his thesis on the creation and elaboration of political myths. He’s a professional mythologist. He was the chairman of the 9/11 Commission.

    Jews or no Jews (Judeo-Christian myth or no myth) when America attempts to rewrite the laws of Mathematics and Physics America it will disintegrate. Every intellectual in the world outside of Israel, (that’s basically anyone who can think for themselves), is laughing at YOU right now.

    Enjoy it jack ass.

  64. greg2 said,

    BINGO

  65. greg2 said,

    many people put the “fun” in dysfunction, even if that fun is negative attention. They still are getting what they need and crave.

  66. micky2 said,

    A slap upside the head usually can validate a claim to your existance

  67. greg2 said,

    My BINGO and “fun” in dysfunction was written in response to micky 2, just to clarify.

  68. micky2 said,

    Uh, O.K.

  69. micky2 said,

    Sorry Greg, I was wondering why you had to clarify. I didnt see the trolls comments earlier .
    The page shows up with only the last few comments. I thought it was just you and I.
    What I want to know is how that jerk slipped in between comments #62 and 63.
    I swear it wasnt like that earlier

  70. greg2 said,

    I didn’t see it earlier either….GADS!! Perfect example of what we were talking about Micky. Sorry Eric that you are exposed to people like this, not liberal just ignorant, so sad!!

  71. micky2 said,

    That kinda crap will being anyone together

  72. micky2 said,

    I;m sorry, “bring ” not “being”

  73. greg2 said,

    totally agree there Micky, just totally uncalled for

  74. micky2 said,

    Oh, I just get all mooshy when we get along and agree,
    I dont even know what to do with myself.
    Screw this crap !
    Who wants to fight !?
    Dont make me register at the Kos !

  75. greg2 said,

    and Don’t make me register with you. I’m neither rep or dem.

  76. micky2 said,

    Fair weather friends ?

  77. greg2 said,

    Nope, just find fighting boring

  78. micky2 said,

    See ! You are a lib !

  79. greg2 said,

    Good Night Micky

  80. micky2 said,

    :-)

  81. familyfriendsfreedom said,

    Eric,

    Just checking in with you, it’s been a while. I have cried in my Fred spilled milk wishing he had stayed around longer. Now everyone cries and belly aches that there is not a true conservative running. Well, you had your chance and you let that one slip away.

    Yes, I wish America would come together and bring Fred back which would certainly be interesting . I believed him. The others may have good qualities but he was honest, he would have fought for Israel, he would have fought for America, and they let him go by not supporting the true conservative they say they want.

    I have thought about a Fred (write in) because I don’t know if I can support anyone on either ticket right now. It will negate my vote if I do that but it would be an honest vote. I’ll have to see what happens and who is left standing in the next few weeks/months.

    Just curious to see whom it is that you support at this point.

    Oh, and how are the brunette Jewish girls working out? That was you right? It looked like you had quite a few offers last time I read your blog. Even those begging to convert for a date. Hey, that’s pretty good. Take care and keep in touch.

    FFF

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